XC70: Gearbox - Auto Transmission Fluid Change - Page 4

RM955I · Nov 26th, 2016, 16:48

What the Volvo procedure doesn't specify is, having gone through all the years twice for a minimum 2 seconds in each gear, with the engine running, does it matter what position the selector is in? I've always done it in Park as I don't fancy being under the car with it in Drive!

Russ 6334 · Nov 27th, 2016, 14:54

Can I assume that if you just take the level plug out and pour 7 litres in with a bucket below the level pump you would have done a complete change? I don't like the idea of doing 3 litres at a time your just mixing old oil with new,

Can I do that?

Thanks
Russ

I-S · Nov 27th, 2016, 15:49

No, because there are many different places that oil resides in an auto box. It is not like an engine where (almost) everything drains down to the bottom. In an autobox you have all of the channels in the valve block, you have the torque converter and the cooling loop - less than half of the oil resides in the sump. Your method would achieve the same as the 3 litre change, and throw away an additional 4 litres of new oil, leaving 4 litres of old oil in the gearbox anyway. The nearest to a "complete change" that you can achieve with the the "gibbons method" described in the first post. You will need to cycle through the gears for 2 seconds in each position in order to shift oil through the channels in the valve block.

However, it's fairly pointless, as RM955I has observed, because there are built-up deposits in the valve block etc that are dissolved by the detergents in new ATF over time. Thus your "complete change" will rapidly become "old oil" anyway as it washes all of this out.

Moondust70 · Nov 27th, 2016, 19:36

My expertise is with Chrysler auto boxes ......... the old Torqflite 727 and the much newer 545RFE ............. on these a sump dump every 25K and a filter change is imperative to keep the box trouble free for many 100's K miles.

Both methods have their limitations ............. a full flush is good to change most (not all) of the lube, however, the new lube needs to be flushed again after 10 -15k miles as the detergents will have had time to work on the crap. This method is often not used as the new oil starts to remove the sediment crap which in turn can be distributed around the box and cause other issues.

The sump dump is preferred on older boxes as you are removing a little bit of crud with every dump and it tends not to get distributed around the box.

Given the choice, the sump dump method is the way to go, unless the oil is 'burnt' .......... if that is the case, then the damage has already been done.

Tatsfield · Nov 28th, 2016, 12:31

Having read the other thread as well as this one can I offer a perspective. I always sump dumped on my previous cars because I didn't know if the box could be completely drained without removing from the car and because done over the engine oil period it was not financially expensive on each occasion. The box was a ZF 4HP20. You have to know that the 4HP20 uses a rare and very expensive Esso developed fluid and cannot use any other!. However extra power being put through the box seemed to wreck the clutches and the box failed anyway. I'm not sure if a 100% exchange would have prevented that.

So my thoughts are these. If the maximum of detergent in the circulating fluid is a good thing and time to let it do its work is desirable, why not do a 100% fluid exchange to remove any circulating crud and then run the box for a reasonable time to allow the detergent to scour contaminated internal surfaces and then repeat the procedure at least once perhaps twice so that over a period of say 9 months the box will have had new fluid to clean it out and ultimately new fluid remaining in a spotlessly clean box to run it. The fluid used in these boxes is not excessively expensive. Well not compared with what I had to previously use!

Would that not satisfy both sides of the discussion?

MartinK · Nov 28th, 2016, 12:35

Quick update from the original poster...

I'm now on 134,000 miles. I've done a sump dump every Autumn since writing the original posting, so I guess I've now changed around 98% of the fluid.

The last dump came out completely clean (none have been "dirty") - almost the same as the new stuff I put in...

the 'box is still lovely and smooth...

What's more - I'm now quite quick at this as I do the gearbox and engine oil in the same morning...Usually at the same time as swapping my summer tyres for my winter tyres...

luggsey · Nov 28th, 2016, 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tatsfield

Having read the other thread as well as this one can I offer a perspective. I always sump dumped on my previous cars because I didn't know if the box could be completely drained without removing from the car and because done over the engine oil period it was not financially expensive on each occasion. The box was a ZF 4HP20. You have to know that the 4HP20 uses a rare and very expensive Esso developed fluid and cannot use any other!. However extra power being put through the box seemed to wreck the clutches and the box failed anyway. I'm not sure if a 100% exchange would have prevented that.

So my thoughts are these. If the maximum of detergent in the circulating fluid is a good thing and time to let it do its work is desirable, why not do a 100% fluid exchange to remove any circulating crud and then run the box for a reasonable time to allow the detergent to scour contaminated internal surfaces and then repeat the procedure at least once perhaps twice so that over a period of say 9 months the box will have had new fluid to clean it out and ultimately new fluid remaining in a spotlessly clean box to run it. The fluid used in these boxes is not excessively expensive. Well not compared with what I had to previously use!

Would that not satisfy both sides of the discussion?

100% agree with you!

Russ 6334 · Dec 5th, 2016, 15:19

Hi all

Can I query this method?

I took my level plug out on my Gen3 V70 and a litre came out? Now to me that's not right I would have expected either nothing or 1-200ml of oil.

After taking the drain plug put only 1.8litres came out.

Warm box and completely level, so where is the 3 litres? Cause mine only holds 1.8litres and would appear to be 1litre over filled!

Should I now drain 1 litre out so the level plug has set the sump correctly?

Russ

Russ 6334 · Dec 5th, 2016, 16:05

Also Volvo are no help they said the sump holds 3.5 to 4 litres!!

Russ 6334 · Dec 5th, 2016, 19:51

The more I think about it the more I wonder if you are setting the level with the engine running? Hence the litre would be circulating and thus the level would be ok but I would have thought this should be done cold and engine off.

Can any one shed some light on this?

Nov 26th, 2016, 16:48	#31
RM955I Premier Member Last Online: Jun 26th, 2022 23:42 Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Midlands	What the Volvo procedure doesn't specify is, having gone through all the years twice for a minimum 2 seconds in each gear, with the engine running, does it matter what position the selector is in? I've always done it in Park as I don't fancy being under the car with it in Drive! __________________ D5, 205 Phase 3 V70...love the grunt. Previous: 2004 (2005 facelift) 2.4 170

Nov 27th, 2016, 15:49	#33
I-S Premier Member Last Online: Jul 22nd, 2021 23:43 Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Huddersfield	No, because there are many different places that oil resides in an auto box. It is not like an engine where (almost) everything drains down to the bottom. In an autobox you have all of the channels in the valve block, you have the torque converter and the cooling loop - less than half of the oil resides in the sump. Your method would achieve the same as the 3 litre change, and throw away an additional 4 litres of new oil, leaving 4 litres of old oil in the gearbox anyway. The nearest to a "complete change" that you can achieve with the the "gibbons method" described in the first post. You will need to cycle through the gears for 2 seconds in each position in order to shift oil through the channels in the valve block. However, it's fairly pointless, as RM955I has observed, because there are built-up deposits in the valve block etc that are dissolved by the detergents in new ATF over time. Thus your "complete change" will rapidly become "old oil" anyway as it washes all of this out. __________________ Our Car 2011 V70 D5 Geartronic Polestar - 38.6mpg over 45524 miles Replaced by

Nov 27th, 2016, 19:36	#34
Moondust70 Member Last Online: Feb 21st, 2023 23:44 Join Date: May 2009 Location: On a M-Way !	My expertise is with Chrysler auto boxes ......... the old Torqflite 727 and the much newer 545RFE ............. on these a sump dump every 25K and a filter change is imperative to keep the box trouble free for many 100's K miles. Both methods have their limitations ............. a full flush is good to change most (not all) of the lube, however, the new lube needs to be flushed again after 10 -15k miles as the detergents will have had time to work on the crap. This method is often not used as the new oil starts to remove the sediment crap which in turn can be distributed around the box and cause other issues. The sump dump is preferred on older boxes as you are removing a little bit of crud with every dump and it tends not to get distributed around the box. Given the choice, the sump dump method is the way to go, unless the oil is 'burnt' .......... if that is the case, then the damage has already been done. Last edited by cumbrianmale; Nov 28th, 2016 at 20:33. Reason: Delete quote

Nov 28th, 2016, 12:31	#35
Tatsfield Premier Member Last Online: Today 10:10 Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Poole	Having read the other thread as well as this one can I offer a perspective. I always sump dumped on my previous cars because I didn't know if the box could be completely drained without removing from the car and because done over the engine oil period it was not financially expensive on each occasion. The box was a ZF 4HP20. You have to know that the 4HP20 uses a rare and very expensive Esso developed fluid and cannot use any other!. However extra power being put through the box seemed to wreck the clutches and the box failed anyway. I'm not sure if a 100% exchange would have prevented that. So my thoughts are these. If the maximum of detergent in the circulating fluid is a good thing and time to let it do its work is desirable, why not do a 100% fluid exchange to remove any circulating crud and then run the box for a reasonable time to allow the detergent to scour contaminated internal surfaces and then repeat the procedure at least once perhaps twice so that over a period of say 9 months the box will have had new fluid to clean it out and ultimately new fluid remaining in a spotlessly clean box to run it. The fluid used in these boxes is not excessively expensive. Well not compared with what I had to previously use! Would that not satisfy both sides of the discussion? __________________ 2012 XC70 SE Lux Polestar 230 bhp D5 Auto Oyster Grey

Nov 28th, 2016, 12:35	#36
MartinK Senior Member Last Online: Jan 10th, 2019 14:27 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Edinburgh & Aviemore	Quick update from the original poster... I'm now on 134,000 miles. I've done a sump dump every Autumn since writing the original posting, so I guess I've now changed around 98% of the fluid. The last dump came out completely clean (none have been "dirty") - almost the same as the new stuff I put in... the 'box is still lovely and smooth... What's more - I'm now quite quick at this as I do the gearbox and engine oil in the same morning...Usually at the same time as swapping my summer tyres for my winter tyres... __________________ 2009 XC70SE Geartronic Last edited by MartinK; Nov 28th, 2016 at 12:37.

Nov 27th, 2016, 14:54	#32
Russ 6334 Junior Member Last Online: Dec 7th, 2016 16:25 Join Date: May 2016 Location: Plymouth	Can I assume that if you just take the level plug out and pour 7 litres in with a bucket below the level pump you would have done a complete change? I don't like the idea of doing 3 litres at a time your just mixing old oil with new, Can I do that? Thanks Russ

Dec 5th, 2016, 15:19	#38
Russ 6334 Junior Member Last Online: Dec 7th, 2016 16:25 Join Date: May 2016 Location: Plymouth	Hi all Can I query this method? I took my level plug out on my Gen3 V70 and a litre came out? Now to me that's not right I would have expected either nothing or 1-200ml of oil. After taking the drain plug put only 1.8litres came out. Warm box and completely level, so where is the 3 litres? Cause mine only holds 1.8litres and would appear to be 1litre over filled! Should I now drain 1 litre out so the level plug has set the sump correctly? Russ

Dec 5th, 2016, 16:05	#39
Russ 6334 Junior Member Last Online: Dec 7th, 2016 16:25 Join Date: May 2016 Location: Plymouth	Also Volvo are no help they said the sump holds 3.5 to 4 litres!!

Dec 5th, 2016, 19:51	#40
Russ 6334 Junior Member Last Online: Dec 7th, 2016 16:25 Join Date: May 2016 Location: Plymouth	The more I think about it the more I wonder if you are setting the level with the engine running? Hence the litre would be circulating and thus the level would be ok but I would have thought this should be done cold and engine off. Can any one shed some light on this?

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