V50 General : Difficulties with mechanic

[ladybird]

Also (sorry this is so long winded)
Volvo over the phone have said they have never seen this happen themselves.

The new owner has driven a minimum of 500km in the first week and the car has a new dent on the front that my husband noticed last Saturday. Not enormous but still a fresh dent.

Is it possible it could be something Volvo missed in its earlier stages and now it has increased after a big bump?

Thanks to everyone who has taken an interest and given feedback

[NI_Volvo_Nut]

I assume this pre sale test is to ensure the car is roadworthy? That being the case, i'd wash my hands, that test gave it a clean bill of health! You say he's a mechanic, yet he had to take it to 2 different mechanic's to find this fault. Again, it must be quite a severe fault to draw his attention while driving, so you would have noticed also. Ony possible evidence of impact may be a damaged wheel rim, which gets me thinking, why was he with a mechanic in the 1st place, maybe he damahed a rim, look for evidence of a new rim, or impact damage, maybe an odd or newer tyre. Why did he go to the place you got your tyres, possibly to get a tyre same as what was fitted.

At this point i'd contact a solicator, and try to walk away, i cant see how you can be responcable for this.

BTW yes, it sounds like a suspension arm that is in question. As far as i know the V50 has a new suspension set up, its a spring on the bottom arm, i'd say its the bottom arm which the complaint is about.

Item No1 in this link http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?im...%3D1%26hl%3Den

[ovlov25]

A few ideas for when you sell your next car

All anyone can do is get a buyer to sign a reciept stating that they have fully inspected the car and are happy with it. Personally I mark any of them now with things like 'mileage unverified', 'service history unverified' etc. That way if something does happen then I'm in a better position to legally defend myself. Any genuine buyer should understand the risks of buying 2nd hand privately. If they want a warranty, tell them to buy from a dealer. What S60 has said previously is pretty spot on though.

If there is a dispute it is often difficult to prove what is wrong. What is reasonable wear and tear? How do you prove that a genuine buyer isn't getting stitched by a dodgy seller or vice versa. Only yesterday I heard of a friend who bought a Jaguar over ebay and it wasn't as described. That took a year to sort out and he got all but £500 back from his credit card company.

Information is usually vague with these types of cases, alot has to do with customer expectation and what a magistrate deems to be reasonable. I've lost count of the times I've sold a cheap car and someone has complained that it missed a service 10 years and 100k miles ago!!

I'd wait until he pursues you legally, you have paperwork on your side and I assume the car was subject to a full Volvo service history? Even so, if he continues to use (and damage) the vehicle he is pretty much admitting acceptance of it.

I don't know what else to say as French and N. Irish law are different (N. Irish and English law are different!!) Good luck anyway, from what I've read it sounds like the guy is chancing his arm to get some easy money from you.

Stick to your guns, play hard if need be. Don't panic and good luck

[S60D5NI]

Originally Posted by ladybird

.....he had to take it to a second one, the guy who changed the tyres for us just efore sale and he demanded that he take a proper look - thus he found that.

The top of the tear or break is rusty, as it moves on down to the part still holding it is clean.

Ladybird

You state that the tyres were changed, was this all the tyres?

Perhaps the guy who changed the tyres could confirm if there was any unusual wear - perhaps that's why they were changed.

Also, althought the '...top of the tear or break is rusty' it would depend how rusty. As I said in my original post, a mechanic / engineer should be able to tell if the damage is recent (i.e. within the last seven days) or has been there for some time. Also is the tear starting at a weld or similar transition and is the arm ('Bra') bent because of the tear or is it deformed as well as being torn?

What I'm driving at is to try an establish has this arm failed in 'normal' service due to a faulty weld / component (in which case the bend is due to the tear) or has it suffered mechanical damage (due to hitting a kerb / pothole / accident etc.) in which case the arm has been bent and the impact has initiated the tear.

As NI_Volvo_Nut said - look for evidence of damage to the wheel rim or a new rim (check all rims as he may have swapped them around!).

Ultimately, if it looks like the arm has failed in normal service, Volvo may offer a repair at a reduced rate.

If you are forced down a route of repair (i.e. balance of evidence is that fault was present prior to sale) - get an estimate from Vovlo (and possibly a local independent). If the buyer want's cash-in-hand for less than this, it can only be for two reasons: - 1) He's intending to do the repair himself and pocket the difference in which case why would he do this as most people whould be happier to have the car repaired. 2) He knows his case is weak (or he is trying to scam you) and he's hopping to put you under pressure and then offer you an easy way out. Obviously if he's asking for more cash than a repair would cost, he's looking to profit from the situation.

I would't worry too much at this point about his threat of legal action. We do have to bear in mind that the Buyer may be equally convinced that you sold him a faulty car, but his approach does seem very agressive. Although I am unfamiliar with French law, it seems to me that you are taking an entirely reasonable approach. You are having the 'fault' assessed by experts before proceeding. You haven't yet rejected his claim. If he want's to go down the legal route, he has the equal (if opposite) problem of proving the fault was there prior to sale.

Sit tight and wait until Volvo gives it's assessment and take it from there. As the manufacturer (and servicer) it's Volvos opinion that will count in any legal dispute- not what we 'amateurs' think! If Volvo is of the opinion that the fault was present prior to sale and you are convinced that you are liable and need to get the car repaired, so be it. It's not worth getting stressed out over a few hudred euro and you can be happy in your own mind that you did not knowingly sell a faulty vehicle.

If the Buyer want's cash and you decide this is the best option for you, make sure he signs a receipt which clearly states that he is accepting the money as full and final settlement for the damage and also that he accepts the vehice as fault free in all other aspects, allowing for reasonable wear and tear.

You are trying to do the right thing and you have my (and I'm sure others) moral support. Be sure to keep us all informed of progress!

[ladybird]

Thanks so much for the info and support. I appreciate it heaps as I am feeling the pressure waiting for the outcome tomorrow.

I agree that I think the buyer is up to something dodgy. He didnt want us to take it to Volvo because he says he doesnt trust them. ????????

I worry that I dont trust him or Volvo because perhaps volvo is at fault somewhere and they may try to cover their rear.

I have my worries that perhaps the buyer was going to do a home repair which I think kind of goes against his whole, 'how dare you, how dangerous' drama standpoint - I prefer it be fixed by a pro so it wont come back in my face later.......

Thanks again and I will keep you posted........

[7050man]

Ther's a lot that has been written here, and whilst I've not read everything, a quick synopsis of my understanding is this; you have sold a car to some guy that then comes back 500km later with a damaged wing claiming that the car is unroadworthy due to a badly damaged wheel.

Well there's one word that comes to mind- Tough!

If he buys a car as seen, providing you don't mislead him and falsely describe the car as one thing when clearly it is not, then that's down to him to check out what he is buying in the first place.
That would certainly (if it were me) include getting an independant technical inspection to help him make a decision to buy or not. This does in no way give him any guarantee with you after agreeing to buy.

As for meeting to discuss, I would not waste my time meeting with any garage mechanic or anyone else for that matter. If he thinks that the legal system would offer him recompense then my advice would be, see him in court.
Don't give him the time of day.

Good luck and don't get bullied.

[S60D5NI]

Agree entirely 7050man, but this sale was in France under French Law which seems somewhat different to 'ours' (using 'ours' loosely - there being differences in English, Scottish and NI Laws!!).

[ladybird]

And there it is....

[NI_Volvo_Nut]

Hard to say from the picture, but...
1st i'd say it is dangerious, but not as dangerious as this guy is making it out to be, 2nd, doesnt look to be too old a break to me, but like i say, hard to tell with the picture. Its thee main trailing arm on the L/H/R and as suspected, its the same set up as the Ford Focus, only problem i've ever seen with these is bush failure.

How are you getting on so far? What was the outcome of the meeting?

[ladybird]

I will see what other pics my husband has of it and try to post something else.

We are supposed to be paying 600 for a repair of 1200, providing they don't find anything else super dangerous that needs fixing in the meantime.

Volvo pretty much confiscated the car, they said 'it stays here until it is fixed'. They also said that perhaps when the shock absorbers were changed that the problem existed and was smaller so they didnt see. My husband isn't happy with the way they are handling it so he is writing to Volvo. He has made it clear to them that the part once removed belongs to us.