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PV, 120 (Amazon), 1800 General Forum for the Volvo PV, 120 and 1800 cars

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Brake master cylinder

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Old Feb 1st, 2018, 21:23   #1
Underdrive
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Default Brake master cylinder

I'm currently sorting a few issues with the brakes on my '63 Amazon (with single line non servo system) and have removed the master cylinder to hopefully just fit new seals, however the cylinder bore is too damaged to make a successful repair. So I am left with a few options, Brookhouse have both original and repro new ones with appropriately different prices. I personally don't like the original design which doesn't hold a lot of fluid in the reservoir and I prefer to be able to see the fluid level easily at a glance, so am looking at alternative options. There are universal master cylinders (with plastic reservoirs) available from the likes of Girling and Wilwood that will fit without modifying anything (I don't have a problem with fitting non original parts that can easily be swapped back by myself or a future owner), however the original one is 7/8" bore and most of these alternatives are no bigger than 3/4". So my main question is, will a 3/4" MC be OK to use and why did Volvo fit a 7/8" one? Many other vehicles produced at the same time with single line and no servo had 3/4" MCs such as Triumph, MG and Land Rover among others. Your opinions please.
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Old Feb 1st, 2018, 21:45   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdrive View Post
I'm currently sorting a few issues with the brakes on my '63 Amazon (with single line non servo system) and have removed the master cylinder to hopefully just fit new seals, however the cylinder bore is too damaged to make a successful repair. So I am left with a few options, Brookhouse have both original and repro new ones with appropriately different prices. I personally don't like the original design which doesn't hold a lot of fluid in the reservoir and I prefer to be able to see the fluid level easily at a glance, so am looking at alternative options. There are universal master cylinders (with plastic reservoirs) available from the likes of Girling and Wilwood that will fit without modifying anything (I don't have a problem with fitting non original parts that can easily be swapped back by myself or a future owner), however the original one is 7/8" bore and most of these alternatives are no bigger than 3/4". So my main question is, will a 3/4" MC be OK to use and why did Volvo fit a 7/8" one? Many other vehicles produced at the same time with single line and no servo had 3/4" MCs such as Triumph, MG and Land Rover among others. Your opinions please.
I would be wary about fitting a smaller master cylinder - whilst I don't know why Volvo decided on the larger size I'm sure they did it for a reason.

Before you go any further, however, I would try to id the master cylinder you have at the moment and compare that part number with what "should" be fitted. There's a possibility that what you have is already not standard.

If you can't get the correct size from anywhere then you could get someone to bore out and sleeve the existing master cylinder. I expect this isn't a cheap option.

The other thing you could do is upgrade to a power booster and master cylinder and perhaps even a set of disc brakes
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Old Feb 1st, 2018, 23:59   #3
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I think that you will find that the brake MC is 3/4". The B16 used a Girling MC. Later cars used the ATE black cast iron pot but I think that is 3/4" too or the metric equivalent. I've seen both Tilton and Wilwood MC's used on members cars as well as cast iron Girling with a plastic pot so maybe one of those could comment. I have pictures taken at Sywell of the Tilton and Wilwood install. Wilwood is copycat Girling but the Tilton has an oblong fluid chamber.The fitting factor is needing bolts at 12 and 6 o'clock.
Basically there is no reason not to use the ATE one. There is a plastic pot that replaces that cap on the ATE MC if you want a visible check on fluid level. I don't know if Simon has these.
https://shop.nordicar.com/en-gb/volv...voir-7083.html

This maybe the same as used on VW Combi/Bus and might be cheaper from VW parts suppliers.
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Old Feb 2nd, 2018, 11:44   #4
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Army; I don't have a problem identifying the MC as original (no offence but I have many years experience with Amazons) and as I said initially I can easily find the correct replacement for it from Brookhouse etc. My reason for looking into alternatives is due to the demise of the original creating the opportunity.
Derek; Thanks for your input, helpful as ever, but the internal dia is definitely 7/8". I have measured this one and 3 others (all beyond repair, don't know why I've kept them!) plus both Haynes and Intereurope manuals quote in their spec 0.875" which is 7/8". The clutch MC is 3/4".
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Old Feb 2nd, 2018, 11:53   #5
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I usually don't go for anything other than original spec. However, I do like the idea of a high volume master cylinder:
  • I had a broken pipe recently and I was scared by how quickly ALL the fluid was pumped out of the tiny little standard reservoir,
  • Amazons fitted with servos are difficult to bleed through and a reservoir with a larger capacity should make it easier

I really like the look of the Wilwood ones:

http://www.wilwood.com/MasterCylinde...ter%20Cylinder

There's so much going for this as well as being approximately the smae price as a replacement standard one. However, I would like something that you can connect up to a pressurised brake bleeder.

I would like to experiment with a larger bore than the standard 3/4". I don't feel confident with remote servos and I wonder if a bigger master bore would be a better alternative.
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Old Feb 2nd, 2018, 11:57   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek UK View Post
This maybe the same as used on VW Combi/Bus and might be cheaper from VW parts suppliers.
Oh hello:

https://www.vwheritage.com/211611301...rvoir-vw-spare

However, I see on the CVI site it says, "With adapter" on the high volume reservoir (out of stock). So I expect it won't just screw into place as simple as that. As well, I calculate a new standard MC+ high volume reservoir to be more than a Wilwood one.
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Last edited by swedishandgerman; Feb 2nd, 2018 at 12:11.
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Old Feb 2nd, 2018, 12:18   #7
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I like the design of the early VW T2 master cylinder because of the three pipe outlets eliminating the need for a separate junction block but as Derek pointed out the mtg holes are horizontal instead of vertical which would mean drilling new holes, don't want to do that.
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