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ECM6805 Cured?

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Old Mar 3rd, 2010, 01:35   #11
GSMGuy
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Originally Posted by R-P View Post
I was going to threaten him with a visit where I would swap his turbo, vacuumlines/pump and other bits for mine if he still hadn't answered (been on holiday for a week).

But someone else already helped remind him.

@ Mike: we need information. So if you can spare the time, you would make (many) people happy with your solution. And if you want to build a business out of setting right what Volvo can't/won't solve, then I very much want to be your first customer

(If time does not permit you explaining/taking pics for a while, just drop a line that you haven't forgotten this thread )

Sorry guys, been burning the candle at both ends, and wanted to wait until I had time to do a proper post - But as there is so much interest....

History:

ECM6805 code and limp mode at regular intervals...

Tried:
New intercooler (old one WAS split - Slightly better, still going into limp on anything like brisk acceleration

So - Purchased a Mityvac and set about testing....

Applied 18" of vacuum directly to the turbo - Car went like sh1t off a shovel, but threw excess boost pressure error (can't remember code)

Tried pulling a vac straight into the vac system, ie remove vac pipe from vac pump and apply vac to it - Held vac, but leaked it away quite quickly - A little "jiggling" and I found that both of the little rubber "ends" on the vac hoses to and from the turbo control solenoid (on the engine block) had gone soft - Ordered replacements (less than £3 from Volvo) and fitted - System now holding vac without loss.. Attached Mityvac to vac pump.... VERY LITTLE vac with engine running at idle... Increasing to 12-15"hg @ approx 2500 rpm...

To prove the fault - I rigged up my Pela oil extractor INSIDE the car, with a small bore pipe going out, through passenger window, and under the bonnet, connected to the vac feed (ie pipe removed from vac pump and connected to new pipe)

Using a Draper boost pressure/fuel pump tester gauge, I pumped up the Pela to 18" of vac... Went for a drive..

Car was TRANSFORMED! LEAPS off the line, pulls like a train....

So - as a new vac pump is OVER £400!!! I got one from Preston Volvo Breakers - £30 cash... Fitted in 10 mins, and car has performed perfectly for the last 5000 mile - Not one single error or fault code, still pulls like a train and all of the hesitation from standstill has gone - I am regularly beating EVERYTHING away from the lights....

The way the turbo is controlled on the D5, means that if there is no vacuum, there is no boost.... My vac pump was outputting virtually nothing at idle, and then 10-12"hg from 2500rpm, explaining why I had decent performance from 3000 rpm on, but nothing from idle...

And before the sceptics start, saying "Oh but you will have had no servo assistance for your brakes" The D5 pump is TWO SEPERATE pumps completely, one low vol, high output fot the turbo, the other High vol low output for the servo....

HTH you all - I am now keeping the car, whereas I was on the pont of selling it - Also my ave mpg over the last 5k has gone from 24-25 around town to 28.7.... And I am "booting" it everywhere!!!

Mike

Last edited by GSMGuy; Mar 3rd, 2010 at 01:38.
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Old Mar 3rd, 2010, 11:56   #12
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Thanks!!!

Do you still have the old vacuum pump and could you post a pic so I know what I'm looking for? (Only been under the car once for the transmission-flush)
Did you examine why it is not producing a decent vacuum at low RPM's?

Gonna see if I can round up some stuff at work to try some testing too (knowing me that'll not be before the summer probably...).
Hmm, vaccuumpump that does 5 mBar absolute, GE-pressure-calibrators as gauges, we should have everything that is needed
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Old Mar 4th, 2010, 02:23   #13
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Sorry, old pump went in the scrap, as it was dripping oil everywhere, I think possibly an internal valve or seal had failed, but couldn't be bothered stripping it, was just glad to have finally cured it!

Vac pump is located next to the injection pump, but on the rear camshaft, secured by 3 10mm bolts, a bit awkward to get at the lower two, but squeezed in there with a 1/4" drive socket...

Hope this helps others, as I know the 6805 is the bane of a lot of peoples lives - However, I do believe that many have paid out for unneccesary turbo replacements and other work, when a simple vacuum test would have proved that the fault lay elsewhere - Remember, on the D5, Zero or low vacuum means Zero or no boost - Incidentally, the vibration on idle I have had for the last 3 years has now gone too, as a result of the variable engine mounts now working correctly, again, due to sufficient vacuum - The mounts are fed from the same vac supply as the turbo...

Mike
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Old Mar 9th, 2010, 17:46   #14
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Thanks for the update, this certainly gives us something else to consider. I think you could be right with Volvo misdiagnosing some of the ECM6805s.
My dealer did not mention that this part could affect the system and trigger this code...
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Old Mar 22nd, 2010, 00:03   #15
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Just as an update - Have now covered just short of 10,000 ,iles since my repair, and not had one single solitary reoccurance - Car still running like a dream and going like a rocket...

Mike
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Old Mar 28th, 2010, 18:44   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSMGuy View Post
Just as an update - Have now covered just short of 10,000 ,iles since my repair, and not had one single solitary reoccurance - Car still running like a dream and going like a rocket...

Mike
hi mine is a xc90 d5 54 plate and everytime it goes past 80 ish uphill or booting it high revs the "engine service required" and even "urgent engine required" comes on and loss of power- i have a ppc volvo diag tool and it reads ecm6805 and also cem-1f00 ecm software faulty signal and ecm5380 communication problems with central control module, i had the car chipped 2 years ago and it had been perfect for over a year and flew, its apparently 204 bhp ??? but since then i have had a new clutch and dmf and slave cylinder changed by a volvo independent garage and not long afterwards noticed this fault "engine service required" maybe a couple of months later but as i don't drive it that much it maybe related? i have changed the fuel filter and air filter and oil service and reset codes,and bang it comes again, could it be the ecm6805 causing these faults etc?
could it be this vacumm pump with mine?
Advice would be much appreciated.
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Old Mar 30th, 2010, 14:11   #17
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Since there's communication issues involved, I'd start with some connectorcleaning.
The solution mentioned above is always good to investigate. If you can get the car jacked up, I'd, at the very least, inspect the quality of the vacuumlines (have yet to do this myself, as I am very short on free-time and have no proper possibility to ramp or jack the car up....)
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Old Mar 31st, 2010, 12:16   #18
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I made a long post, but knowing how messy that is to read, I rewrote it:

*What is the vacuum pressure supposed to be and is it a steady pressure or does it vary with RPM?

*I expect the engine mounts to need a steady pressure, but the turbo to need a varying pressure. Am I wrong or is the vacuum somehow modulated?
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Old Mar 31st, 2010, 13:20   #19
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Vac pressure from a good pump, is a pretty much constant 18" of mercury - Turbo solenoid is "pulsed" which is a pretty primative method of control in my opinion.

Mike
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Old Apr 6th, 2010, 21:18   #20
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Finally did some work, but the results were.... strange.

Found the solenoid for the engine pads and the 'governor' for the turbo.
Only had a short period of time for testing, so started by finding the vacuumpump. Found the vacuum-tube leading there and found it to be loose

I thought: can't be that easy, I've been driving with the vacuum-line unhooked for the last year and a half??? Attached it, drove around, but nothing changed...
Hooked up a vacuumgauge instead of the pad-solenoid. Started the engine and the vacuumgauge showed -0.6 bar with a fast fluctuation of about 0.1.
I guess 0.6 bar is about 48cm Hg (6/10 * 76cmHg = 45.6) so this should be enough to fully extend the control arm on the variable nozzle (as per the second post in this thread).

GSMGuy, the 18cm Hg you said it should give, is this absolute or should it give 18cm negative pressure? It gives out way more than 18cm negative, and not quite 18cm absolute (only 30cm...)

I then put the vacuumgauge in the line to the pad-solenoid (not instead of) and started it again. The vacuum showed -0.6 again, but dropped to zero the instant I shut off the engine. That shouldn't happen, should it? If it were in the OUTPUT of the pad-solenoid, then it should drop to zero, as Vadis states "The atmospheric pressure then flows in via a hole in the solenoid valve and fills the engine pads, which become harder" when the solenoid is switched off.

I think I can run out and remove the solenoid all together to see if then it will hold its vacuum.

Next will then be to measure the output of the governor, or to bypass it altogether.
Or is that last idea a big nono? (Given the possible confusion between minus 18cm or 18cm absolute...)


Edit: I did run out, and put the gauge in instead of the solenoid (so the pads still hooked up). It reached about -0.4bar (about -30cm Hg). I did a run with it and it reached a little higher, close to -0.6 (-45cmHg), but only just before it the autobox shifts. It was also higher at higher RPM, but that was very slightly(0.05 or so). When shifting, it really swept up.

Putting in the gauge instead of the pads and the solenoid, showed a little lower than I thought. Sweeping from -5.5 to -6.2, so 5.85, or minus 44cmHg.

I had too little light to put it into the turbo-control-tube.

I'll try to measure the solenoid and pads at work, where I can supply a vacuum and then measure for leaks. With the car running, so the solenoid does not switch to venting to barometric/environmental pressure.
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