ETS Light - ETM failure -> Volvo US admits to problem.

[oilburner]

Seems you've been unlucky. All the Volvo main dealers and independents I've used have been brilliant. Try shopping around some more?

BTW, your problems (you didn't say exactly what they were) with the car may not be the ETM, although it will fail eventually, that is true.

To be honest, annoying as it is, if you review owner reports for all kinds of different cars from different manufacturers it is rare that there isn't some major fault that happens to most, if not all cars at some point. That's life. Even the Japanese brands aren't indestructible, despite the folklore.

Enjoy your V70 for what it is, a top class comfortable cruiser with exceptional practicality.

After all, if you take the car to main dealers you'll be lucky to see change from £600 for a service + cambelt (which your car will need soon, if it has not been done already). In that context, is the ETM replacement cost so bad?
After all, for a top luxury car, comes top maintenance costs. Yes Volvo should sort it, but right now they don't see why they should. IMO, it's only on an emissions technicality that Volvo US are agreeing to replace ETMs for free. I wouldn't see it as Volvo UK being deliberately un-cooperative.

Try taking it to an indy Volvo specialist, there are many listed here and most people have one they favour. The money you can save on servicing and maintenance compared to the main dealers could go a long way to paying for a new ETM and you get to keep a very good car...

Enjoy your V70 and try not to let this ETM thing ruin it for you. Who knows, it might carry on for another 20-30,000 miles yet anyway?

It could be worse, just look at the problems some 2002-2003 D5 owners have suffered with injectors...

[volvo2]

I don't think I could disagree more. This part is well known to have a defect that will cause it to fail prematurely. To make matters infinitely more serious this is the very worst and most dangerous kind of defect. The failure occurs catastrophically, i.e. suddenly and completely and without warning. In other words one could suddenly lose power while overtaking in heavy traffic. How can that not have significant safety implications? My own V70 has had throttle control problems almost from new. There is no adequate warning nor can the problem be detected by routine maintenance or servicing. There are no unusual noises or marked changes in handling or performance prior to failure. This is most certainly not what one would expect from a Volvo or any other half decent car. The fact that Volvo UK pretend the problem does not exist is an absolute disgrace.

Melvyn

[oilburner]

This is all hearsay right - has anybody actually had a failure that has resulted in injury or worse? Last I heard the NHTSA in the US were still looking for such a report and had not found one.

As for the failure mode, is it really any worse than a tyre blow out or ECU failure or any number of things that can leave you suddenly in trouble at an inopportune moment?

It's not like the car just dies either, it goes into limp home mode. Lots of failures can cause this.
My wifes Astra did this once on an A-road whilst she was doing about 50mph. No big deal, she slowed down and pulled over. The car behind might not have been impressed, but they coped!

I disagree that the ETM failure happens without warning too. I have heard many first hand accounts of owners who have suffered failures describing stalling, rough running etc, sometimes for months before the car gave up and put them into limp home mode. Some people then proceed to ignore this and are surpised when the car actually dies with no hope of continuing.

Sure, some ETMs might die outright without any warning whatsoever. Anybody here actually experienced this? If not, then the matter is still open to debate.

If we're not careful here, we can whip ourselves into a frenzy of outrage that may not actually be justified.

Yes the design of the ETM is poor. Yes it's expensive. Yes it's annoying. There are very few (if any) modern cars out there that don't have such faults appear after 5-6 years. That is my honest opnion.
I wouldn't be in such a rush to leave Volvo ownership (as many appear to be). Frying pan...into fire? Some of the stories I've heard about VWs, BMWs, Renaults etc make me very glad I've chosen a Volvo. So far, 18,000 miles in mine (88,000 total) with no major problems other than a new catalytic converter since the car was new. I'm happy with that. So what if I have to shell out for a new ETM, it's not the end of the world!

[volvo2]

Pete,

We are talking about risk here. You don’t have to have experienced injury before something is considered to be dangerous. Also, what sort of hazard are you going to be when travelling at 20mph all the way home in today’s traffic?

This is particularly ironic given Volvo’s reputation for safety and reliability, which in my mind they are in danger of throwing away. Unless Volvo sorts this out, my next car will certainly be a different make and this is after eight Volvos in my immediate family.

Melvyn

[oilburner]

Why on Earth would you attempt to drive home in limp home mode? Surely the sensible thing to do is to get to a safe stopping position and call for breakdown assistance?

As for risk, it's all relative. I notice that Volvo didn't start making stability control standard equipment until 2003 on the V70. Nobody seems to worry about this, and yet most of the pre-2003 cars are without it. It has been said that stability control could save almost as many lives as seatbelts have, more than ABS and traction control on their own.

Do we complain about the lack of DSTC on 99-01 cars? No, we just get on with it. Volvo have made it standard now and we're all the better for it. However, you could argue that the pre-2003 cars are more dangerous if without DSTC. Do we make out Volvo don't care about our safety because they waited so long to make it standard?

Personally, I am confident that if and when my V70 dies on the third lane of the Motorway at70mph+ (unlikely, but possible) and my family are in the car, I can safely navigate to the hard shoulder without causing undue risk for anyone. If I couldn't cope with the unexpected then it would be me putting me family at risk and not Volvo. There are plenty of things that can and do go wrong. As long as there is a way to recover from them safely without requiring extra-ordinary skill, what is the major issue?

I wish you luck if you try another brand, because the grass is definitely not greener!

p.s. sorry if this seems confrontational, I'm partly trying to play Devil's Advocate here, as I'm not sure the issues have been fully explored....

[volvo2]

Mr Richardson,

Well, that’s certainly becoming confrontational. I don’t think this discussion is any longer constructive so this will be my last posting.

The situation is clear to me. I will finish by simply observing that if you think a defect like this on your car, with all the worry and hassle it entails is acceptable then that is clearly your choice - personally I don’t. If you want to defend the presence of an expensive on-going problem that others can ill-afford and are struggling to resolve (on what I hardly need to say is an expensive car produced by a major manufacturer), then again, your choice.

Regards

Melvyn Smith
PS Others have reported driving home under such circumstances.

[oilburner]

Fair enough.

Shame we couldn't have a discussion on it. I would have liked you (or anyone else) to be able to explain exactly why this defect is such a major issue without resorting to repeating the same dogma.

I tried to explain why I feel it's something I can live with, despite being fustrated that the problem is there, and yes it is a problem and yes it is expensive. It's an expensive car, as you say. Why the surprise that it's expensive to fix when it goes wrong?

Are you sure you can't help me to understand why you think Volvo have to do something about and why you think it is so dangerous, compared to other risks and potential failures?

I would also venture that anyone trying to drive more than a few hundred yards in limp home mode is not only putting themselves at risk but is being anti-social by holding up other traffic. The only sensible and safe thing to do is call a breakdown truck.

[lemaz73]

That's it, my ETM failed two weeks ago, was replaced and almost all paid for since I have an after market warranty but then........the NEW ONE FAILED AS WELL after about 150 miles!!!!! Brakes failed (was only doing 5 miles an hour thank god), engine coughing, probably running on 0.0001 cylinder, etc.
Had to be towed for about 70 miles...and get a new ETM in. With my luck, volvo called me on the day of repair and said that their server was down would I be able to wait a bit longer for the software upgrade????? Hum Hum...
Anyway, so far only done 110 miles and touching wood.
LeMaz.

[sierraman]

Well i'm lost for words after reading Pete's comments.He is obviously very rich or works for Volvo.There can be no other reason for such a cavalier attitude to such a problem.

Are you really saying buy a Volvo......Buy breakdown cover? Buy a Volvo......enjoy the defects? Have you actually read the comments from other members? Then bringing DSTC into it is a joke.ETM failure is putting volvo owners and other drivers at risk whereas DSTC aims to increase traction & stabilize a car in a skidding situation. In any effect the ability to avoid an accident remains in the hands of the driver!

Then you say it could be worse...look at the problems owners have experienced with injectors on 2002-2003 D5's. Why don't you buy a d5 as well.....Treat yourself to those repair bills.

I know you mean well but i just can't agree with some of your ideas.A person who buys a Volvo does so in the knowledge that they are buying a quality car.They realise that servicing and general repairs are going to be more expensive....as it is a luxury car. However when a part proves not to be of suitable quality but infact a very expensive defective part. They have the right to expect help from volvo and it's dealers.Afterall most Volvo owners spend a fortune on over priced maintenance & parts. To then find out that you have a ticking time bomb under the bonnet and no one cares ....is a joke!

You may be happy to spend on out on etm's but i and many others are not. If i wanted an unreliable car i would buy an old banger!

Does anyone actually know if the replacement units are reconditioned? If they are then volvo owners could be replacing these every year or so. Aren't they designed to last for 100,000 miles?

[Chris_Rogers]

It was interesting watching BBC Watchdog tonight.
One subject was the failure of Audi TT dashboards, Audi seem to have agreed to replace these FOC.
Volvo's response to the ETM issue in the UK seems to be perverse in this context.