1800: Bosch Part Number for JFURX4 Distributor

[Hugr1]

I'd be very interested to have the definitive Bosch Part Number for their JFURX4 Distributor as used on the B20E engine and this is because a query has arisen as to whether I have the correct Distributor fitted to my engine since we found the vacuum governor appears to be working in reverse mode to the way it should, i.e. ignition is being retarded rather than advanced

Part Number lifted from the Distributor is 0231163021, which I believe is correct one

Bit of a puzzle !

Just trying to eliminate the possibility of the Distributor being wrong one so we can move towards improving the idling of the engine when warm (RPM's are dropping off to around the 500 to 600 mark when I believe the engine ought to idle at 900) and also help with engine starting (engine should / did start without any foot throttle input but needs a little persuasion by this means)

Any help in respect of this query would be appreciated ;

Kind Regards

Hugh

[alastair]

Originally Posted by Hugr1

I'd be very interested to have the definitive Bosch Part Number for their JFURX4 Distributor as used on the B20E engine and this is because a query has arisen as to whether I have the correct Distributor fitted to my engine since we found the vacuum governor appears to be working in reverse mode to the way it should, i.e. ignition is being retarded rather than advanced

That's the way the distributor is supposed to work on the B20E. It was an emissions directed measure iirc, and many owners just plug the manifold and disconnect the vacuum hose from the distributor. The vacuum retard does nothing beneficial, performance or economy-wise. Alternatively you can replace the distributor with a suitable vacuum advance option like the Ignition123 (the route I went).

[capt jack]

When I had my 1800ES I found it all worked much better if the vacuum line was simply disconnected, and then plugged at the manifold.

As far as I remember it is a retard and not an advance mechanism, and is only there to help meet emission requirements in certain markets. Certainly in my case the car ran much better with it disconnected!

The B20E is I found very difficult to get to idle really smoothly, but it should be ticking over at 800 to 900 rpm with variation of around =/-50rpm, measured using a hand-held tacho.

You need to get the static timing right, the points perfect and the dwell right. Also, go through the ignition system and the D-Jet electrics systematically checking and where necessary re-making all the electrical connections. Also, make sure that the trigger points in the base of the dissy are nice and clean. Do all the standard basic checks on the HT and LT circuits, and make sure that your plugs are in good shape. You might want to check out the coil too. Make sure your earth straps are good, that the two temp sensors are within spec for resistance, and that the injectors are OK. Look very carefully at the electrical connections to the injectors - they perish and crack with age and heat.

Make sure that your aux air slide is functioning properly, and that you've no leaks on the manifold. D-Jet is very intolerant of air leaks on the manifold.

Once you've attended to all the electrics make sure that the fuel pump is working efficiently (ie not noisy) and that you change the external fuel filter. If possible, renew the strainer that fits over the tank pick-up.

This article http://www.vclassics.com/archive/efi.htm is absolutely invaluable.

Cheers

Jack

PS. Satisfy yourself that the balance weights in the distributor are moving back and forth freely. One time one of my return springs broke, which meant that one of the centrifugal weights didn't function correctly, which in turn made the engine run like a three-legged dog!

PPs. More helpful stuff: http://www.jagweb.com/aj6eng/djetronic.html. The same EFI system was fitted to Jags, VWs, Renaults and Porches of the time, so you might want to scan through their OC pages too.

[Hugr1]

Many thanks indeed to both of you for responding so promptly to my query and for providing such helpful advice & insights - of course, knowing that, in fact, the vacuum governor on the Distributor is supposed to operate in the manner I described is a big help and, yes, I'd simply disconnected & plugged it when we came across this issue till I could investigate the matter

I've been wrestling with idea of switching to electronic ignition but I'd prefer to keep the vehicle as original as possible so I think, in first, instance we'll run thru' the checks Capt. Jack has suggested and use the article he provided a link to as a guide as well

See if we can't improve the ignition function and running of the engine a little, especially at cold start and idling when warm

Capt. Jack mentions the efficiency (or otherwise) of the fuel pump and that it oughtn't to be too noisy

When I first turn the key in the ignition (the red warning light for the hand brake on right hand side of the driver's wheel illuminates amongst other things) but before trying to turn the engine over there is constant "noise" which I took to be the fuel pump being activated, energised - this sound continues till the engine is switched off although its not really so noticeable with the engine running - difficult to describe the sound in question so that somebody else would understand what I mean but its like a steady hum and doesn't seem to vary in pitch

Does this sound normal would you say ?

Thank you both very much again ;

Best Regards

hUGH

[capt jack]

With regard to that noise, what should happen is that when you turn the ignition on, the pump (which is behind the rear wheel on the nearside) should run for two seconds to prime the system, then stop.

Then when you turn the key again to start the car the pump will start up again. Once the engine is running, although the pump will of course be running, the noise from the engine will mask it.

If the pump is still noisy with the engine running, especially if you can still hear it when you are sat in the car, then that suggests that the pump is working hard, maybe too hard. I'd definitely change the fuel filter. It's located on a panel behind the nearside wheel, next to the pump.

Also, inside the fuel tank over the end of the pick up pipe is a little mesh strainer. This is accessed via the brass nut in the bottom left hand corner of the tank, viewed from the rear.

The 1800ES tank is prone to gathering sediment etc, and if this strainer is blocked, or the fuel filter is not replaced regularly, the pump will struggle to maintain fuel pressure. One consequence of this can be poor idling.

On my ES I did away with the in-tank strainer and fitted an in-line steel strainer between the tank and the pump. Do not use the plastic fuel filters from Halfords etc - there is significant pressure in the system and those little plastic filters are not designed for fuel injection pressures!

If your ES is anything like mine, the poor idling will never be completely solved (although maybe a 123 distributor would do the trick), but you can improve things greatly by attending to the list in my previous post.

Difficult cold starting and poor idling warm sounds to me like a sticking aux air slider, but one thing I did learn about the D-Jet system is that it doesn't take much to knock it off form, and you need to check methodically every stage and each component.

Do let us know how you get on.

Cheers

Jack

PS - if Stonehaven wasn't so close to the Arctic circle I'd pop across and have a look!

[B20F]

Part Number lifted from the Distributor is 0231163021, which I believe is correct one

That is indeed the correct distributor for the B20E, the B20F came with the 0231163033.

If your ES is anything like mine, the poor idling will never be completely solved (although maybe a 123 distributor would do the trick), but you can improve things greatly by attending to the list in my previous post.

The bit irregular idling is caused by the D camshaft, so normal behaviour for the B20E&F engines.
The electrical connectors from the Djet should be in perfect order, especially the - connection from the injectors on top of the intakemanifold. These injectors work on only 3volts, so any bit of resistance from the connectors will cause problems. Best is to pull all the electrical connectors one by one from the Djet system and give them a good cleaning with contact spray. To top it off give the connectors a coating with electrical grease before reconnecting to prevent future oxidation.
Another point of attention are the timing points at the base of the dizzy. You can just pull the connector, loosen the 2 screws and pull them out. Clean them by pulling a piece of cardbourd or thick paper between the points to remove grease and dirt. Don't use a abrassive! There isn't any current running through them, so they can't pit like the normal contact points. You can just slide them back in, they can't be or need to be adjusted or timed.

Here's a list of the Bosch partnrs. used in the B18&B20's;
Bosch distributors part #’s:
B18A - 026
B18B - 003
B18B - 009
B20A - 077
B20A - 085
B20B - 078
B20B - 099
B20E – 021
B20F- 033

Distributors Bosch 4 Zyl.
0231 146 077 140 B20A 8.68-4.74
170 085 140 B20A 5.74-7.74, 240 B20A 8.74-9.76
146 099 140 B20B 8.70-7.73
163 021 140 B20E 6.71-7.73
170 087 140 B20E 8.73-7.74
163 033 140 B20F 7.72-7.73
178 007 140 B20F 8.73-7.74
002 002 240 B20F 8.74-8.75 USA
002 003 240 B20F 8.74-8.75 Auto USA
002 009 240 B20F 2.75-8.75 Auto california
002 008 240 B20F 2.75-8.75 Manual california
163 021 1800 E/ES B20E 6.71-7.73 USA
163 033 1800 E/ES B20F 7.72-7.73 USA

[Derek UK]

Worth adding that the injectors themselves should be squirting a proper pattern with the correct flow rate. Renewing all the seals and washers on them will help too.
I think blaming the D cam is a bit unfair as a D cammed B20 with SU's will tick over smoothly at less than the E's specified 900rpm. Many of the FI sensors will now be past their prime and possibly a bit cranky. For instance, if idling is erratic it may improve if you lightly buff up the track on the TPS with a pencil rubber.

[Hugr1]

Rather belatedly I'd like to express my sincere thanks to those of you who gave of their time & knowledge in responding to the query I posted - a lot of very useful guidance, which hopefully I can use in a methodical manner to see if the cold start & idling characteristic of my car can be improved upon

Suggestion seems to be that for the D-Jet system to work efficiently it is particularly dependent on all components functioning well and all electrical connections to be sound and I guess, ultimately, irrespective of any possible shortcomings in what is after all an old design the true condition of many items is an unknown factor

The article on the D-Jet FI system that Capt. Jack provided a link to is, just as he suggested, invaluable particularly to the lay person in terms of gaining a better understanding of it but, I can imagine, to professional mechanics or technicians as well because there cannot be too many of those who were trained on it, worked on it when it was contemporary and, dare I say it, cutting edge technology

Couple of queries remain if that's okay and hope somebody can help

Firstly, my original question concerned the correct part number for JFURX4 distributor and I received assurance the part number I lifted off the distributor in my car was the right one

Last weekend I removed a distributor from what I believed to be a B20E engine though I didn't think to double check this by looking at stamping on the block (it certainly came from an 1800E that someone has stripped) and was curious to find the part number 0231163010 stamped on it plus the legend JFURX4 and an arrow indicating, presumably, direction of rotation

See the photographs I took of it :-

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...010JFURX42.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...010JFURX43.jpg

It certainly looks correct but I saw this part number doesn't seem to feature in the comprehensive list B20F provided

Any ideas ?

Secondly, concerning idle speed adjustment, it says on Page 2:32 of the 1972 version of the Volvo Service Manual for 1800E/1800ES that "idling speed is adjusted by altering the cross-sectional area of the auxiliary air pipe by means of of the idle adjustment screw" (which is illustrated in Fig 2-81) whereas on Page 2:48 it says "adjust the idling speed to 900 rpm by means of the throttle stop screw (which is shown in Fig 2-99 on Page 2:46) and now I'm a little confused because, at face value, these instructions appear to be contradictory

Thirdly, nomenclature and in Fig 2-15 on Page 2:8 of same publication there's an illustration of what is described as being the valve tappets being removed whereas I've only ever seen the item in question being referred to as the cam followers and on Illustration 2-A of the engine that's provided therein a completely different component is labelled as being the valve tappets and I ask only to understand if valve clearances can be checked, adjusted simply by removing the rocker arm casing or does cylinder head have to be removed as it would need to be to get at former component ?

Finally, to Capt. Jack . . . why not lash on your snow shoes and head North ?

Lovely part of the country at this time of year (harvest just getting under way, heather in bloom, roaming in the gloaming etc.) and no problem in terms of accommodation for both you & Mrs Capt. Jack if that's not too much of a presumption - takes me about 5 hours to drive to my sister in law's in Leeds, not in the 1800E of course, or the stagecoach passes thru' town every day !

Have posted couple of photos of my car in appropriate section of this website and hope these are of interest (they're not the best and don't really do it justice to be honest - will look out the old Box Brownie and see if I can't get some better shots)

Thanks once more to all who've participated in this thread to date, much appreciated ;

Best Regards

Hugh

[Burdekin]

Hugh,

Check this page out, looks like it's correct for the 71 B20E: http://translate.googleusercontent.c...jj9KLx4Bouyxdw

[B20F]

Secondly, concerning idle speed adjustment, it says on Page 2:32 of the 1972 version of the Volvo Service Manual for 1800E/1800ES that "idling speed is adjusted by altering the cross-sectional area of the auxiliary air pipe by means of of the idle adjustment screw" (which is illustrated in Fig 2-81) whereas on Page 2:48 it says "adjust the idling speed to 900 rpm by means of the throttle stop screw (which is shown in Fig 2-99 on Page 2:46) and now I'm a little confused because, at face value, these instructions appear to be contradictory

Never adjust the idle with the throttle stop screw as this will ruin the setup of the throttle postition switch. Idle has to be adjusted with the large screw with locknut under the inletmanifold intake (where the hose coming from the airfilter meets the inletmanifold.) If the idle can't be adjusted with this idle adj.screw there's something else wrong in the setup or the aux.airslide is stuck in the open or closed position. Very common to happen due to old age. The bad thing is those are very difficult to get, but they can be repaired for €75 iirc. Just send an e-mail to Tinus Techniek. It's a dutch guy, but correspondence can be done in english