Do S90/V90 Adblue engines avoid EGR woes?

[cauty]

Hello all, as a first-time poster I apologise for the negative tone of the following.

As a once-happy owner of a 2014 V60 with D4 engine I've been somewhat dis-heartened by the EGR woes affecting the 4-cylinder engines.

My own car recently had the EGR 'fix' after the dreaded yellow light appeared. There's been no recurrence of the warning light yet but now there's an infrequent hiccup on light throttle when running cold. Power delivery also seems reduced below 2,000rpm, particularly when cold, with occasions where it pauses for a good couple of seconds before feeding the power in, even with the throttle planted to the floor. It feels like the engine management system is overriding throttle input to restrict emissions, maybe to reduce chances of soot build-up in the EGR pipes?

Then there was the recall letter I recently received about the inlet manifold fire risks, clearly related to the EGR issue (and discussed at length here on the forum). A concern and no fix in sight. Also, I've read much of the discussions about whether the EGR pipework/intercooler changes are actually a fix or just a temporary sticking plaster. How long will Volvo continue their goodwill payments if it's not a permanent fix?

Add to that recurring problems with the battery charge and stop/start, and recent hissy-fits from the alarm, and I find myself wanting to get rid of a car that was supposed to last me a good 10 years.

Anyway, the reason for this post. I don't want to give up on Volvo as I really do like their range and I've been looking at nearly new S90s and V90s, with the odd new-shape V60 creeping into my Auto Trader search results.

I was interested to learn about Volvo switching their diesel engines to using Adblue (an admission of defeat when it comes to their EGR design) and I'm wondering when this happened, how I can tell if a particular car uses Adblue without physically opening the filler cap and are these engines immune to the EGR problems? Finally, were these engines included in the fire risk recall (the letter says it affects 'a number of' 4-cyl engines from 2014 to 2019)?

Can anyone shed any light on this?

[Quacker]

Originally Posted by cauty

Hello all, as a first-time poster I apologise for the negative tone of the following.

As a once-happy owner of a 2014 V60 with D4 engine I've been somewhat dis-heartened by the EGR woes affecting the 4-cylinder engines.

My own car recently had the EGR 'fix' after the dreaded yellow light appeared. There's been no recurrence of the warning light yet but now there's an infrequent hiccup on light throttle when running cold. Power delivery also seems reduced below 2,000rpm, particularly when cold, with occasions where it pauses for a good couple of seconds before feeding the power in, even with the throttle planted to the floor. It feels like the engine management system is overriding throttle input to restrict emissions, maybe to reduce chances of soot build-up in the EGR pipes?

Then there was the recall letter I recently received about the inlet manifold fire risks, clearly related to the EGR issue (and discussed at length here on the forum). A concern and no fix in sight. Also, I've read much of the discussions about whether the EGR pipework/intercooler changes are actually a fix or just a temporary sticking plaster. How long will Volvo continue their goodwill payments if it's not a permanent fix?

Add to that recurring problems with the battery charge and stop/start, and recent hissy-fits from the alarm, and I find myself wanting to get rid of a car that was supposed to last me a good 10 years.

Anyway, the reason for this post. I don't want to give up on Volvo as I really do like their range and I've been looking at nearly new S90s and V90s, with the odd new-shape V60 creeping into my Auto Trader search results.

I was interested to learn about Volvo switching their diesel engines to using Adblue (an admission of defeat when it comes to their EGR design) and I'm wondering when this happened, how I can tell if a particular car uses Adblue without physically opening the filler cap and are these engines immune to the EGR problems? Finally, were these engines included in the fire risk recall (the letter says it affects 'a number of' 4-cyl engines from 2014 to 2019)?

Can anyone shed any light on this?

Using high EGR before moving to selective catalytic reduction is not an admission of anything. Rather, it is a natural progression of following regulations and further reducing NOx emissions.
The Adblue versions still retain a fairly high level of EGR, otherwise they would need to use far more Adblue fluid per mile driven. Up to 5% of diesel fuel used would not be unusual for low EGR current engines, which means using 5 litres Adblue for every 100 litres of diesel. I don’t believe that the current Volvo engines use it in anything like that ratio or they would probably need 20 litres of Adblue for every fourth or fifth tankful of diesel.

Either way, it’s way down the list of something I have to worry about. Way down.

[mr rusty]

I reckon my adblue consumption is around 1litre / 1000 miles so around 110ish litres diesel

[Quacker]

Originally Posted by mr rusty

I reckon my adblue consumption is around 1litre / 1000 miles so around 110ish litres diesel

Which is how and why top-ups are normally not required between normal service intervals on most cars. They consume about 1% relative to fuel.

The system is a lot of extra complication and in all applications it can and does occasionally fail and need repair.

Personally I would prefer to have it, but have it at a much higher consumption level to absolutely minimise the EGR required. It’s all about the compromises chosen by the engine designers to meet emissions regulations. There’s no set correct way of doing so.

[Zebster]

The use of AdBlue/DEF results in a significant reduction to the volume of EGR required to meet the EURO 6 NOx limit, which is why manufacturers go to all the complexity of fitting it... God only knows why Volvo originally tried to achieve the standard without it! However the added complexity of the AdBlue delivery system brings its own problems, as Volvo owners have recently been reporting here... https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showt...ghlight=Adblue

There was also this recent 'Adblue Vs EGR' forum thread... https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=283590

[Bendolfc]

They did meet the standard just fine without out it, just it was a farce and pointless as in the real world it simply didn't do its job . As a result testing was changed and to meet the Euro 6d temp standard was impossible without ad blue.

[Haldex]

Originally Posted by Zebster

God only knows why Volvo originally tried to achieve the standard without it! However the added complexity of the AdBlue delivery system brings its own problems

I'll take a wild guess.. maybe to avoid the added complexity?

[Zebster]

Originally Posted by Haldex

I'll take a wild guess.. maybe to avoid the added complexity?

Ha, probably! But, if so, that was not a sensible engineering decision and will cost Volvo a lot more in the long run.

[Haldex]

I imagine quite the opposite- they managed to save millions of $$ by opting to postpone the AdBlue installation.. Only a fraction of non-AdBlue engines had issues.. I'm currently on my third Volvo EGR diesel- all in all over 250K problem-free kms. But then again, I pick and choose where I buy my diesel and 9 out of 10 fillings I buy premium- I imagine that helped as well..

[Zebster]

Originally Posted by Haldex

I imagine quite the opposite- they managed to save millions of $$ by opting to postpone the AdBlue installation.. Only a fraction of non-AdBlue engines had issues.. I'm currently on my third Volvo EGR diesel- all in all over 250K problem-free kms. But then again, I pick and choose where I buy my diesel and 9 out of 10 fillings I buy premium- I imagine that helped as well..

Not sure what you mean by 'fraction' but obviously those numbers are growing... mine is on its second EGR valve, third EGR cooler and now awaiting the current recall work. The main forum thread on the EGR blockage subject has a huge number of owners reporting repairs that Volvo have funded, plus the recent threads (like this one) also mention rectification work. That 'fraction' is obviously not insignificant!

And how much will the current Volvo manifold recall (over half a million vehicles) cost them? And how can you put a figure on the reputational damage and resulting loss of future sales that Volvo must now suffer? I bet they now wish they'd fitted AdBlue to all VEA engines...