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The end of 10W/40 engine oil?

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Old Nov 18th, 2017, 03:55   #11
canis
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Right, let's clear some things up here:

In oil viscosity ratings, the first number is it's performance when at operating temperatures. So saying a 0W oil helps cols starts is nonsense. The second number is it's performance when cold, so saying a 30W oil is thinner than a 40W oil is only stating the obvious.

While thicker oil does necessitate extra drag, it is miniscule compared to the effort required to turn two camshafts. Next time you've got the belt off, try it. The starter motor extra drag when cold is caused by metal contraction, but even that doesn't really compare to the effort to overcome valve springs. The starter motor is unaffected by oil viscosity. This extra strain 40W oil puts on a starter motor is imaginery, as my 188,000m motor has verified today.
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Old Nov 18th, 2017, 09:26   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canis View Post
Right, let's clear some things up here:

In oil viscosity ratings, the first number is it's performance when at operating temperatures. So saying a 0W oil helps cols starts is nonsense. The second number is it's performance when cold, so saying a 30W oil is thinner than a 40W oil is only stating the obvious.

While thicker oil does necessitate extra drag, it is miniscule compared to the effort required to turn two camshafts. Next time you've got the belt off, try it. The starter motor extra drag when cold is caused by metal contraction, but even that doesn't really compare to the effort to overcome valve springs. The starter motor is unaffected by oil viscosity. This extra strain 40W oil puts on a starter motor is imaginery, as my 188,000m motor has verified today.
You have got it all backwards, the first number relates to the viscosity when cold, so in artic conditions you should use an 0W oil.
The W is for winter, as it relates to the viscosity at minus 18C, the second rating is for plus 100C.

There is a real difference in the load on the starter and battery when cold starting an engine when using an 0W rather than a 10W, although it would need to be a real cold day for that difference to be audible.

The difference in fuel economy only relates to the period the engine is warming up in terms of the W figure, once its warm the second rating is of more importance, although the differences are not very significant. The additives in the oil also have a slight effect, so some of the modern oils have more Moly (Mo) additives than required in wear protection terms, as it reduces friction slightly.
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Old Nov 18th, 2017, 11:00   #13
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+1 ^^^^^^^

My old P1 2.0lt petrol was run on 10/40 all its life and got to 370,000mls with no problems. All regular oil change intervals and new filter every change. That is what Volvo recommended. My P2 is run on 5/30 as that is what Volvo recommend for the VVT pulley to work correctly and over a long period of time. It is now on 130,000mls and no issues with rattly start up or anything else for that matter. Again regular oil changes and engine flush every second change to keep everything spotlessly clean.
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Old Nov 18th, 2017, 20:37   #14
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That makes absolutely no sense. How can an oil be less viscous at cold temperatures than at hot?
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Old Nov 18th, 2017, 20:49   #15
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Quote:
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That makes absolutely no sense. How can an oil be less viscous at cold temperatures than at hot?
The 2 different numbers are not proportional - i.e. In a 10W40 oil the viscosity at 100°C (40) does not mean that it is 4 times more viscous than the cold cranking requirement (10) - the 2 are measured differently.

This somewhat tedious article contains 2 tables showing the parameters of the different measurements: http://www.machinerylubrication.com/.../oil-viscosity

Basically if you compare 0W40 and 10W40 oils both offer the same viscosity (SAE40) at running temperature, but the 0W will circulate more readily during a cold start than 10W.
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Old Nov 19th, 2017, 19:04   #16
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Thanks, that makes sense now.
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Old Nov 21st, 2017, 21:27   #17
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My SAAB 900 has been running on 10w40 for the entire 35,000 miles I've done in it. 2 weeks ago I switched it out for 5w40 fully synth because it was being sold off for £16 for 5 litres.

There's no doubt its smoother on startup now. just anecdotal but it does seem that a lower cold viscosity has a benefit or two. Once warmed up feels no difference.

It may be relevant that before I put this oil I retorqued the head bolts and changed the rocker cover gasket, which after 21 years use was laughably permeable.
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Old Nov 22nd, 2017, 21:13   #18
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This may well be why my local tesco petrol station were selling 2l bottles of castrol gtx 10/40 for £3 a few weeks ago, annoyingly they only had 1 left, if they had got more i would have bought 3 and done an oil change, i got the last one though, handy for top ups.
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Old Nov 22nd, 2017, 22:02   #19
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Brand X stop selling the cheap stuff and tell us to buy the expensive stuff instead. The supermarkets are very good at this, have been doing it for years. Why do you think so many people vote with their feet (wallets) and go to Lidl ? Buy brand Y.
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Old Nov 23rd, 2017, 08:33   #20
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I love these oil threads. It makes me secure in the fact that my beloved hobby of fishing is absolutely not dull!! 😆😆.
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