Electric Amazon

[Volvo Canadian]

Hello-All after a long period of absence! You may be pleased to know I've been devoting my efforts to a Series ii Rover in the meantime.

Anyway, as the title suggests, I'm just about ready to start my latest project, which is to convert my Estate into an Electric Vehicle (EV). I'm guessing it will take me about a month, assuming I can have all the parts on-hand when I begin it. If there is some interest, I can post details.

Jim

[Palmer 221]

Is it common to make this conversion in over the pond?
would be interested to know about the proposed drive train

I haven't heard much about it in the UK.

[classicswede]

I have been thinking about doing it for years.

I have been converting cars to LPG for over 15 years and EV conversions to me look like the next step. The big issue is as always the cost is high and you need to a LOT of miles to start seeing any saving.

A project thread with lots of photos along the way would be great

[Hat]

Be interesting to see, it's the way forward.

[amazon69]

It would be great to see how you do this. I was going to make my Bristol electric, but it was the battery cost that killed it for me. Plus the weight of the car from the off. I also didn't like the idea of having to dump the batteries every few years, it seems counter to the environmental nature of the proposition. However, as I said, I would love to see how you do it.

[Volvo Canadian]

Okay! Perhaps I can get some help via questions or suggestions. I will paste an article I just wrote for a local vintage sports car club, which for starters I would like some feedback on.

The simple fact is an EV will not pay for itself unless you drive it a lot, yes. But your car will be worth more. All-and-all I am taking the optimistic approach: some of this is relatively new technology, and there could be a catastrophic failure.

EV conversions are not common up here in Canada, but lead-acid conversions with DC motors have been around for a long time. Motor-controllers are 100 years in the making. Batteries are the big unknown. Will they really last that long?? There is a fellow north of here who batteries are still going strong after 8 years, and the new ones are way better. Billions are being invested and there are lots of promising technologies. All-and-all, I think this is the future.
So, here is the article - I think it will answer a lot of questions (and raise more). Some formatting has been lost.

Pros and Cons of an Electric Car Conversion

INTRODUCTION
For Classic Car drivers, an Electric Vehicle (EV) might seem interesting - even impressive - but not that relevant. Prepare to be surprised. In this short article I would like to introduce you to the Electric Car Conversion – what it means, what is involved and some of the pros and cons.

Well, if you are still reading, that means you are at least curious - and you should be. The latest production cars have proven the EV concept, with the Tesla Model S demonstrating an EV can keep up with a Ferrari (0-60 in 3.5 seconds), while still being practical (range of over 400km). But even if you could afford a Tesla, you like old cars. Me too, so I decided to convert one of them instead.

BUILDING AN ELECTRIC CAR
Below is a simplified diagram of an EV system. To convert there are a number of components to be mounted and wired-up, and two major tasks: 1) fabricate the hardware to mount and connect the electric motor to your existing transmission; 2) figure-out some way to mount your batteries. If you are like me you will want to do this to a high-standard. Once you have the adaptor, expect to take 2-4 weekends, using the time in-between for getting stuff you need. If you want to build a custom console with various read-outs, etc… that is possible, but not necessary – a standard controller will display the basic information you need (power-output, power remaining, a few others) via a small display.

The Main Components of an EV Conversion

(Pic is attached, it wouldn't paste for some reason)

(From: http://www.alltraxinc.com/images/Block-Diagram.gif)

I am using 5 out of 16 battery “modules” from a Tesla, and sourcing the rest of the components from a Canadian supplier. The batteries and some of the hardware will fit in the wheel-well and old fuel tank. The motor is 8” across, 14” long, and weighs only 110lbs. My 2300lb vehicle will weigh about the same as it did before, and under normal driving-conditions have a range of about 125km. Many Charging-Stations are free (hotels, businesses), but charging my vehicle at home will cost about 2 cents per kilometer, instead of about 10 times that for gas (using average prices for power in Alberta, 20mpg city and 85 cents/litre for regular gas). I drive it every day for 3 seasons, and could get-by with a range of 50km/day 98% of the time.

COST
Just how expensive is it, you ask? All of the components for my car (except batteries) will be around $8,500 retail. If you consider the price of all of the rebuilt, custom or new components for an internal combustion (IC) vehicle (zoom-zoom engine, carbs/fuel-injection, pumps, distributor, coil, starter, alternator, radiator, exhaust, etc…) it may be less, but could easily be more. It’s only the cost of the batteries which may make you hesitate; mine are the best you can buy, and I got a bargain - they will be about $7,000 (delivered). You could pay much less if you go for less range, cheaper, used, or even lead-acid batteries, or more if you have a bigger car, want the next-generation batteries, or more range. But they will pay for themselves over the life of the car (Tesla batteries are guaranteed for 8 years and should last much longer than that: 2,000 – 3,000 charge cycles). Battery prices (and weight) are dropping too.

WEIGHING THE PROS AND CONS
I am an Electrical Engineer - making an Electric Car is my idea of fun. It is practical too, but still not for everyone. Converting is a big out-of-pocket expense, and if you already have a good engine, less attractive. Then-again, selling the engine and all the bits which go with it will pay for a good chunk of the electric motor etc.... This is what I did. If you do not have a good engine yet, going electric is something you should seriously consider. Below are some questions you might have, loosely termed Pros and Cons of an EV conversion – let’s start with the negatives:

CONS:
• Mine is a collector-car and will lose a lot of value if it does not remain original. I totally understand. I am in the same situation with one of my vehicles.
• I’m a motor-head, I LIKE working on my engine. I have a lot invested in tools, etc…. I like the sound, the feel, the smell. I get it. I’m rebuilding one right now too (you only have one Classic Car??).
• I don’t understand these things. I wouldn’t know where to start. I want something familiar. This article is meant to at least get your interest up. Although you will have to do some reading, there are plenty of resources out there and at least one Shop in Calgary which will convert your EV for you. Keep reading.
• I want to make long trips. Where do I charge my EV if I’m on the road? If you want to make long trips there are more chargers than you might think, but charging will slow you down. If you look on the Net (AMA website, for example), you will see there are already 100’s of Chargers in Alberta alone, and this number is growing fast. Charging will take 30min – 1hr for a full charge. If all-else fails, you can plug into 120V overnight.
• What about the cold? Yes, these batteries run best when warm. If you want to use your EV in the winter, you will need to keep them warm or your range will suffer, but this is not difficult. On the plus-side, our batteries will last longer when stored (parked) in a cooler climate.
• I may not drive my car enough to justify the expense. This is a valid point if you are just looking to save money in the long-run (then-again, why not drive it more?).
• What if something breaks? These systems are known to be extremely reliable! The only moving part is the rotor – change bearings every 200,000 miles and it is new again. See below.
• What if I get into an accident?? Your batteries will be installed so they won’t move if there is an accident, and the motor will turn off via an inertia-switch. If damaged, they have fuses, so won’t explode and can’t catch-fire.
• I have heard you need a standard transmission. This is the best solution, but it is possible to use an automatic.
• I want to be able to go fast. Don’t worry, not a problem.
• I want to be able to impress my friends. You will, I guarantee it.

PROS:
• Once a system is installed, what-about maintenance? Unlike conventional cars, there is no maintenance on an EV system. Someone told me this morning, “It’s been 4 years now and I’ve only opened the hood to show it off.”
• Why are EVs so fast? An AC electric motor has maximum torque at zero rpm and stays there up to 2,000-4,000 rpm (depending upon the voltage of your battery bank). So they accelerate very quickly off the line and using the existing standard transmission you can shift gears (once) to keep rpms low.
• Is an EV really a “Green” option? We still burn coal to get electricity. First-off, an EV is typically 85-90% efficient. Internal combustion engines are about 1/3 of that. As far as the electricity itself, gasoline requires a lot of energy from the ground to the pump – I’ll leave it to someone-else to debate the finer points, but have been told it takes up to 5 gallons of gas (equivalent) to get one gallon in your tank. That sounds a bit high, but alternatively you can choose to ‘buy’ renewable-energy from the power company, although you will pay a premium for it.
• What do I do with the batteries when they are ‘finished?’ At some point you will want to replace your batteries, they will lose perhaps 20% of their capacity in 8-10 years. They can still be used for less intensive energy-storage – consider solar for your house or cabin at the lake.
• Can I upgrade my EV system later? Yes. The most likely upgrade will be better and/or more batteries. You may need to change a few other components (ie: to handle more current). My Tesla batteries are extremely light, but you may need to beef-up your springs.
• What-about the existing 12V system in my car? An EV has a DC/DC converter, so all of your 12V system remains untouched.
• What-about power-steering/brakes, heater and A/C? They all run off the engine. All of these systems can be run off of the motor and/or batteries. Moderate braking happens through the motor - charging-up your batteries in the process (for gains of 5-10%). As a bonus, your heater HOT in seconds.
• How do EVs compare to Hybrids? A Hybrid costs about 4 times more to operate as an EV. But if you really want range, an efficient, small gas-generator can be added to an EV system which will provide enough power when your batteries are low (Extended-Range Hybrid), and still give you 50mpg.

CONCLUSION
All-in-all, there is no single reason to convert to electric, but if you want another one, the most recent SVAA (Specialty Vehicle Association of Alberta) newsletter suggests there is a significant chance Classic Cars will be penalized for emissions (or prohibited) in the near future, especially with this new Government. On the plus side, there may be incentives for EVs coming down the pipe, as there are in 3 other provinces. It is almost certain IC cars will be obsolete in 30 years (Alberta Oil Review).

In closing, I will admit to shameless self-promotion. I’m interested in starting a part-time business converting Classic Cars to EVs, as I have been laid-off from the Oil Patch. It is about time I do something I can feel proud of. The response of Readers like you will be a much-needed reality-check. If you have any comments or questions, please email me at jim.steil@gmail.com

Thanks for your interest - it will be some weeks before I get started, as I now have the engine out of my Land Rover.

Jim

[amazon69]

Good for you Jim…exciting stuff. Best of luck with the venture. It no doubt helps that you are an electrical engineer. Those batteries sound interesting.

[classicswede]

Hi James, I do have a few questins and points to make.

There are a lot of Pros to the EV conversion as there are a lot of costs of running a petrol (or even a devils fuel) engine that are not there with an EV

An EV does not need a clutch
no exhaust
no spark plugs leads points etc to change
No oil or filter for the engine. So less cost and far less waste oil to be disposed of
Brakes are almost unused as the Energy recovery works as a brake

Ok the above is offset but the batteries that can have a limited life. If they are built like the 1950's milk floats that still run on the original batteries then that would not be bad but from experiance modern ones will not last that long.


Range,
yes the range is limited. How many households these days only have one car? Not many that is for certain. Simple answer is when you need to go far use the fuel powered car if charging is not likely to be possible where you are going

Another plus for many EV drivers is many companies will let you charge at work - bonus your fuel is paid for by your work!

Now to the questions. I am interested in the details for the system you are fitting. What size and voltage motor have you selected? Controller I am aware of the curtis controllers (have some basic ones on kids Go-Karts) and aware they are not cheap. Are there other controllers available and what controller will you be using?

I will be doing an EV conversion at some point but rather than starting with a Amazon I might just buy a banger like a V70 and do that to get a feel of how it all going together and I will not be so worried about any mistakes on. I have seen lots of kits available stateside but nothing in Europe looks to be available.

[Derek UK]

Electric estate at the Essen show. Volvo stand for the Estate anniversary.
Note the extractor fan in the filler cap position. Also think it had a fibreglass flip front. Towing a small ethanol powered generator/charger is cute.

[Volvo Canadian]

Hi.

Nice electric Volvo! Not sure what the fan is for - I'm guessing he is venting gas from lead-acid batteries? Lead-acid is a severe compromise, with a much higher weight to power ratio, and discharge limited to about 50% of capacity, vs. 80+% for Lithium-Ion. And they only last 3-4 years, as you know. Lithium has no "memory" so can be topped-up with no penalty. Personally, I think Lithium will last as claimed unless you drain them to 0% frequently (I am not hearing stories to the contrary). The other thing to avoid is subtle, but leaving them sit fully-charged for long periods of time is when deposits start to build-up. So, just set your charger so it starts in the middle of the night instead of as soon as you plug it in, and leave them when you don't plan to go driving. Sitting at 10-20% does no harm, in-fact they are extremely stable.

Derek - it seems Curtis controllers are still the standard. Most kits come with them. Others are available, and the newest ones will communicate with the Battery Management System and other components via CANBUS. I'm not going there this time, but might if I could speak to others who are using such a system (Modern EVs do). Of-course, they would likely be MORE expensive.

I'll be going with 111 volts, maximum 650 amps. Tesla modules come in 22.5V 5.5kWh increments. For a decent range I need 20+ kWh, and that comes-in at 111V, which is a good number too (torque stays high up to 3500rpm).

Most conversions retain the transmission. I pressed the supplier on this, and he said with direct drive, unless you can get up to 300V, the starting torque with direct-drive is still not enough. Too-bad, as making an adaptor is not cheap.

Thanks for your questions, and please tell me if the article I have written is useful and not too airy-fairy. A friend told me the other day "You must had drunk the Electric Kool-Aid!" Agreed, I have, but feel there is a future in this.