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Timing gear replacement

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Old May 25th, 2016, 19:27   #1
Derek UK
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Unhappy Timing gear replacement

Got to do mine, just managed to get home from Fort Nelson sounding like a clapped out diesel. Bit of a poll really. If you did the job without dropping the sump/removing the engine, how successful were you in parting the sump gasket from the timing cover without damaging it too much. Did it leak afterwards if you managed it? I will probably get my garage to do the job but they might balk at having to use a razor knife to do the split. Might do it at my risk with no guarantee. I will let them have sump gasket so they can use a new piece there. Engine removal adds a big chunk to the bill.
Stories of doing the job welcome, especially if you've done it more than once. Recommendations for the best gasket sealer also wanted.
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Old May 25th, 2016, 20:07   #2
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Did it on B20. Best to remove sump and fit new gaskets after. A pain I know but at least you won't have a leaky sump.Definitely need puller, no question. Not a big job for someone like you.
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Old May 25th, 2016, 20:41   #3
Ron Kwas
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Derek;

They do usually manage to get us home even when they're hurt, don't they...

I presume you've confirmed TGear failure by observing DistRotor free-play while turning Crankshaft back and forth...more than about 10Deg of free-play pretty much confirms TGHub is separating from Gear, and it needs replacement...

For TG replacement, Engine does not have to be removed...I wouldn't for sure...that unnecessarily increases the scope of the job!...but Radiator should definitely be removed to gain good working access...I would also raise the nose of vehicle 6-10inches for access from below...Reminder: Two bolts secure Oil Pan to TCover...but you knew that...

Gasket survival on disassembly depends on what type of sealant was used to install last time...some types allow careful splitting away from the cover with a razor/gasket knife...but success is pretty rare...so just in case you waste Oil Pan gasket (which is likely), when you order TGear set*, I'd include an engine gasket set, to use as patterns for reproducing (damaged part of) Oil Pan and TCover gaskets, and use those...save the proper kit for later...trick to get a a successful repair without leaks is to clean gasket area well of oil film (with carb cleaner type solvent on a rag, multiple times, obviously minimizing gasket remnants and solvent in crankcase) and when absolutely clean and free of oil film, to use a tenacious gasket compound like Permatek 4H on reassembly.

* Beware...in recent times, there have been incidences of problems with some TGear sets...fitting issues and noisy...I don't have specifics on which type have these problems...I believe Alu, but hopefully others with first-hand experience can chime in here!

If TCover does not presently have a modern Rubber Seal, now is the time to upgrade! Also check WaPu for shaft-slop and replace now while access is best...

Take special care(!) after removing Nut from Cam (36mm) not to push Cam toward back of engine excessively...that can push freezeplug out at opposite end...and that will require an engine removal for access to correct! Beware!

That's all I can think of for now...

Good Wrenching!
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Old May 25th, 2016, 21:39   #4
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An impact wrench for removing big nut essential. metal gear is noisy compared to fiber. I fitted one. I tell every one the whine is the supercharger.
If I could do the job I'm sure you can.
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Old May 25th, 2016, 21:49   #5
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Default Timing Gear

Derek
I replaced the timing gear on the B18 with a cloyes unit obtained from Rock Auto and cost less than a fibre wheel.
Not as noisy as a steel gear but greater longevity than a fibre. Comes as a set with crank gear.
The first time I replaced it I was sent a dodgy set, it's detailed in a thread on here. Turns out Phil S had the same issue as well and was due to a bad batch. All the remains of that batch was recovered so no more out there.
Rock Auto were brilliant and took the case up for me and replaced every item, bearings, oil pump, gears, core plugs, oil plugs and gaskets.
If you go down the Cloyes route(and I recommend you do), make sure when you replace the gears you carefully check the operation.
I can advise
I also used the Cloyes on the B20 that's currently in the engine bay. No issues whatso ever.
On the sump gasket issue.
I cut the gasket and removed that section as it was damaged when I removed the timing cover despite using a shim to try and separate the cover.
I cut a section from a new gasket and used sealastic at the joins and I haven't had an issue since.
Radiator out, set to TDC, remove the gear, replace with new, cover back on.
If the garage doing the job doesn't have a good understanding of the B18 then they need to know at TDC No1 on compression stroke the pips on the gears are not together but 180 degrees apart.
Apologies for stating the obvious but it caught me out with lots of head scratching the first time!!
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Old May 25th, 2016, 22:56   #6
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Gasket survival is hit and mis.

For removing the cam gear you need to use a puller. Levering the gear off will often lead to the end of teh cam snapping off.

I like to open the hole up on the oil spray when fitting steel gears to reduce the noise from them
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Old May 25th, 2016, 23:00   #7
tdz840
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Derek
I have the correct puller for the cam gear. The crank gear you can use a machine mart one.
You are more than welcome to borrow the cam puller
Russ
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Old May 26th, 2016, 00:12   #8
Derek UK
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Smile

Thanks Russ et al. I have both the pullers. No impact gun for the crank nut so that would be down to luck or a buzz of the starter. Will have a sump gasket to use. Would have to rescue my big Britool torque wrench from the dark recesses of the garage I have my 2 door in, that will be a bit of a task. 85ft/lbs and Loctite I believe is the approved setting now for the camshaft nut. Don't think I have a 36mm socket for the nut though.

This one from Russ
If the garage doing the job doesn't have a good understanding of the B18 then they need to know at TDC No1 on compression stroke the pips on the gears are not together but 180 degrees apart.

I think setting TDC on #4 pot solves that? My suggestion would be to get the marks lined up before pulling the gear. The new one can then go back in the same position.
Garage or me? We shall see. I just have a lock-up with no power. I haven't done any engine work for a long time and being an old git with a wooden leg, I don't work at ground level very well........

Just made a small film and added it to YouTube. Enjoy!

https://youtu.be/iXxSRQ0johk

Last edited by Derek UK; May 26th, 2016 at 00:56. Reason: Added YouTube video.
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Old May 26th, 2016, 01:19   #9
Ron Kwas
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Derek;

I just viewed the video...you might connect a timing light to see what timing is doing...otherwise, I'd still try the observe-Rotor-while-moving-Crankshaft-back-and-forth technique...but it sure sounds like a Timing Gear on the way out at the :30sec mark.

Good Hunting!
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Old May 26th, 2016, 05:59   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek UK;2115744

Just made a small film and added it to YouTube. Enjoy!

[url
https://youtu.be/iXxSRQ0johk[/url]
Ooooh err missus that doesn't sound good!
I have a 36mm socket if you get stuck, new thrust washer and is there a lock washer on the cam, can't recall.
I used a rag if the starter motor trick fails. However sounds like it's separated from the steel core which makes it slightly harder. I had that the first time and I ended up with a c type spanner I made up that engaged in the hoes of the cam gear and locked off at the head bolt for the alternator.
I had that tool but loaned it out.....
Simple to make though
#4TDC compression is the way to go, just not the norm
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