V50 D5 2006 - Battery drain - Fuse #43 - Audio system, RTI

[arisetobe]

Hi there, first post here. I've recently bought my great V50 D5 2006, but experienced battery drain issues (over 24 hours the battery voltage dropped from 12.3V to 11.3V). So first thing I did is I have bought a new battery recently (Varta F18), but it did not solve the problem. After reading many articles on how to analyse the problem I have bought a clamp meter, a multimeter and have spent today couple of hours to check the problem.

1. In a calm state, everything off, doors closed for about 5-10 mins, I can see battery drain of 1,3A.
2. Firstly using voltage drop method I have checked that the fuse #43 (in the internal fusebox, 15A default) has about 5mV drop, according to a table it should be about 1A
3. The operation manual says that the fuse/circuit is responsible for "Telephone, audio system, RTI" and an additional manual that I have downloaded from internet says also that fuse #43 is responsible for "Integrated Audio Module (IAM), RTI Display, Phone Module (PHM), Multimedia Module (MMM)".
4. I don't have a phone in the car, but I do have navigation, everything works great and I have never noticed any issue neither with the navigation nor with the radio etc.
5. So I have decided to remove that fuse and have immediately noticed that the drain have been reduced to about 50mA and when connected, the drain have increased to about 3A and then after a minute or so have again become about 1,3A..

I have already ordered a Chinese Dice/Vida, maybe it can show something more specific, but maybe anyone already experienced the same problem and/or can suggest on what exactly the problem can be or what I can also check?

Thank you for your time reading this. Really appreciate any help. And.. nevertheless, like the car very much and will fix this thing.

P.S. Using voltmeter I have metered about 14,3V when engine is running, so the alternator should be ok, as I understand.

[arisetobe]

Any ideas?
That might be either radio or Multimedia Module, or nav DVD player..
Just in case if I would need to install a new (used) device, do you know if I can install a better one? Like CD changer or updated nav system (from 2007-2008 years model?)

[Rooster]

Phone Modules not going to sleep as it should,

They can be looped out with a fiber optic bridge cable to keep audio system working so you can disconnect it to see if it cures your battery drain,

There is probably a software upgrade out for it but there is a real chance that it might kill it if it is attempted,

[arisetobe]

Thanks Rooster! However I don't have any phone in the car, do you mean there might be any unused phone module installed?

I have just received the Chinese Dice today and might check the car this evening. I know I won't be able to update the software by myself, but does anyone know if I can see the actual car software version in Vida? And if there any ways to check if there is any update available for my car? Any lists online? Or only an official station can know that?

[arisetobe]

Ok, I managed to read codes today.. Apart from other some minor things that were related most likely with the dead battery cases I found this very interesting thing:

----------------------------------------------------------------
393: ICM-E003 Configuration fault. Faulty configuration

Diagnostic trouble code (DTC) information ICM-E003

Condition
The infotainment control module (ICM) compares its configuration ID with the signal configuration transmitted on the control area network (CAN) by the central electronic module (CEM). If the configuration IDs do not correspond the fault code is stored. The diagnostic trouble code (DTC) is also stored if the communication between the infotainment control module (ICM) and the central electronic module (CEM) is interrupted.

Note! In the event of an open-circuit in both the control area network (CAN) cables, it is not possible to communicate with the infotainment control module (ICM). Therefore it will only be possible to read off the diagnostic trouble code (DTC) if this type of fault is intermittent. When the diagnostic trouble code (DTC) is stored, the control module responds to the diagnostic commands. However normal control area network (CAN) communication does not work (”Expulsion mode”).

Substitute value
None.

Possible source
Faulty control area network (CAN) configuration ID. (The node is not intended for this car (for example a used control module with different software/hardware))
Open-circuit in the control area network (CAN) wiring between the infotainment control module (ICM) and the central electrical module (CEM).

Fault symptom[s]
The radio buttons on the steering wheel do not function
The navigation buttons on the steering wheel do not function
The display does not light.
----------------------------------------------------------------

Now.. I have never experienced any fault symptoms.. So here are the questions:
- What should I do now? Only go to official service?
- Can I somehow update configuration ID by myself?
- What is ICM (Infotainment control module)? Is this radio/cd or anything else?
- Should I just try to get there and unplug/plug/check the wires?
- Then, is there a way to reset all the codes so that I can see if the problem have been solved?

Please help.

[arisetobe]

Continuing the story.. Just removed the central console and the radio. While disconnected every cable, measured in real time amperage on the fuse. Nothing changed (about 1A drain) until I disconnected the CD/Radio. Now will make a quick switch to disconnect that fuse, so that at least temporary it won't drain the battery.

Does this mean I need a new radio? I have 1CD radio, can I buy and install 6CD changer there?

[arisetobe]

Found some threads that the new(used) unit will need to be "paired" with the car. Can I do that myself in the Vida or should ask an official station?

[arisetobe]

Since no one writes here, I will write.. Coz the show must go on.. :-)

Just wrote to the official dealer with whom we discussed the matter before.Initially they told me just to bring the car to their place and they will investigate. They haven't said anything how much time they would need, only mentioned that hourly price cost about 110Eur.. He-he.. :-)

So below is my email to them, will see what they will answer (if they answer at all). I expect something - "you should not disassemble the car, we can not help you" or "just come to us and we'll investigate".. Will be surprised really if they can give any correct answer at all.


Dear *****,

Please excuse me for the delay in answering you. Just did my best to investigate the source of battery drain. Now I believe I know that and have a question to your electrician. Would really appreciate if you could ask him and then we could make an appointment. The text below is detailed and complex, sorry, I believe, only electrician will understand.

------------
The problem was that in 3 days the battery was totally discharged. After measuring voltage of the battery, the charge drops from 12.6-12.9v to 11.6v in 24hours and then to 8v in 3days.

I did following:
1. Installed new battery. It did not solve the problem. Also, the alternator charges the battery at about 13.8-14.3A when the motor is running.
2. Using a clamp meter measured constant parasitic drain of about 1A. Using voltage drop method with a multi meter checked all the fuses and found that fuse #43 (Telephone, audio system, RTI) takes about 1A constantly. I don't have any phone in the car, but have navigation.
3. Removed the fuse, the overall car drain current immediately dropped to 8-60mA which is ok.
4. Disassembled the central console, removed and disconnected the cd/radio unit (please see the images attached) - the battery drain stopped.
5. Vida/Dice shows no errors, other than those minor caused by loose of battery power by the car recently.

Now I have 3 questions:
1. Can any car/radio software update solve the problem? I've heard that some american cars did have the problem with sirius radio which drained the battery, but my car is 100% european without any sirius radio.
2. If I buy and install a used cd/radio kit, would I need a software update to pair the units? Can I install a 6CD changer radio instead of 1CD radio that I have now (if anyway I would need to change it)?
3. How much the software update would cost?
------------

I would really appreciate if you could pass this to the electrician and get some answers. I believe this is much better when I explain everything in writing and test everything so that we don't need to spend useless time trying to figure out what caused the parasitic drain, but instead directly fix the problem.

Best regards,
*********

-------------------------------



P.S. By the way, drove about 600km this weekend on some Autobahns.. The beast drives 220Km/h easily.. :-) And that sound! Very satisfied with the car..

[arisetobe]

got an answer:

-------------

Dear *****,

I’ve showed your Mail to my colleague, and he told me, that there’s unfortunately no Software Update for the radio. Also there’s no 6CD changer radio for your car. So the only chance to fix the problem is that you bring your car and we have to check the issue.

I’m sorry for giving you no better solution in the moment.

Best regards,
******

--------------

As expected.. :-)
So my next step is to get a used cd radio on ebay, and try to connect it see if it works and/or drains the battery…

Does anyone think it might be not the radio but the computer unit which does not turn off the radio completely? Please advice! I believe there should be smart people here!

[arisetobe]

..ok.. this is going to be a thriller.. today I have more carefully measured the current on the car. It appeared that not only the radio have drained the battery but also the fuse #11 in the hood fuse box. The manual says it is "Relay reversing light, Relay interior lighting or CEM (Central electronic module)" - that compartment area fuse box.. Manual brute force taking every fuse out and in did not help - stable drain of about 400mA (radio have drained about 1A independently, until I removed it's fuse).

The interesting thing is that VIDA does not show that something is wrong with the CEM.. :-/ Will probably go to the dealer to either update the software (if possible) or change the CEM.. seem to be about 1k EUR minimum.. :-/

[arisetobe]

So now I find this information:
http://www.volvopartswebstore.com/products/CD-Changer-As-an-accessory--Volvo-makes-it-possible-to-upgrade-from-the-factoryfitted-CD-player-to-a-CD-changer-with-room-for-up-to-six-CDs--provided-/1116138/31210456.html

This means the ordinary CD drive _can_ be updated to 6CD changer.. :-(
I've already ordered a 1CD drive, because did not know that..
I hate when people behave like that - not knowing anything but saying.. :-(

[arisetobe]

Read tons of important info in vida today. In short - have to perform the activities again, should find the problem.. vida actually suggest to do what I've done, except I have to make sure I close the doors with remote and wait a little bit longer, as the manual says that "Note! If the vehicle has been run to operating temperature, check that the system relay has been activated. An activated system relay causes increased standby current consumption. This is normal under certain circumstances. " Does anyone know what "System relay" means? Where is it located exactly and how to turn it off? It might be that my 400mA are because of it. And btw, the normal "sleep mode" current of S40/V50 should be 25mA.

------------------------------

372: Checking standby current

Checking standby current
Fault tracing by successive elimination
During fault tracing by successive elimination, try to localise the problem by measuring the power consumption at the same time as removing one fuse at a time in the vehicle.

Procedure
Expose the integrated relay/fusebox in the engine compartment and the fuses in the Central electronic module (CEM).

Use the multimeter and check that the relays and fuses have the correct voltage, use the wiring diagram and signal tables as assistance. Measure between fuses and suitable ground terminals. If any problem is detected, troubleshoot the system in question.

Remove a fuse and read off the standby consumption according to the instructions above. If the power consumption has dropped to less than 25 mA, fault trace the system that the fuse corresponds to. if power consumption has not reduced, repeat the procedure with another fuse.

Note! Remove one fuse at a time and measure. Do not reinstall the fuses until the fault has been found, because it could awaken the car from "sleep mode " and restore the problem. If the vehicle was going to woken from "sleep mode" anyway, repeat the preparations for standby power consumption before continuing successive elimination.

If the fault has not occurred, continue with successive elimination on relays and the connectors for the vehicle's control modules.

-------------------------------

P.S. Was looking if I could program the software by myself, found the necessary software here: http://www.volvopartsdept.com/OEMParts/volvo-158/3/30737756.html but don't know how actually it works, will write them.

P.P.S. I feel myself as a guy exposing all the secrets of the professionals to the public.. :-) Sorry, but I don't want to pay hundreds/thousands for something that I can do by myself and can do that better then the others (like the official dealer saying that I can not upgrade to 6CD changer - hate such attitude). Now I read about some special equipment and special careful procedures of investigating the problem with the car and seeing the attitude I am really in doubt that they will perform all necessary steps carefully enough instead of just "doing something" and writing a bill... :-(

[mikester]

picking my (new to me) V50 up in a week or so, this thread makes for disturbing reading a it appears I've got a similar specced car to yours...


if you do find the cure please keep posting despite the lack of replies :)

[arisetobe]

sure I will.. :-) Everything will be fine..

Btw, the volvopartsdept have answered:
> I have chinese dice and vida installed and working ok. Can I buy software from you and install it with my tools myself?
We are sorry, software can only be purchased through the Vida software with a valid Vida subscription.

[arisetobe]

After reading about installing GROM MST3 (to be able to listen to MP3 music), I found out that there is possibility to disable "MOST security" in the car. Another thing is that this would also allow to use third-party used details without the need to download any software for them.

So I have just written to 16 local (and not so local) workstations with direct question on disabling it because of installing the GROM device.. will see what they say.. Most likely they will just say that it's just not allowed (obviously because of security reasons :) ), as they usually say..

I start to think they act like mafia, as they prevent me doing with my used-out-of-warranty piece of hardware (the car, which I have bought completely) whatever I want to do.

[arisetobe]

..found a very detailed description on MOST interface.. now I start to understand what these abbreviations mean..

http://forums.swedespeed.com/showthread.php?132697-2005-XC90-Ultimate-Stereo-Challenge&p=1421007&viewfull=1#post1421007

[arisetobe]

Today I have spent couple of hours to measure sleep mode current more exactly. The results are promising. When I close doors using remote, after about 2 minutes the sleep mode current becomes about 0,02A = 20mA (can't see more clearly as my voltmeter seem to be very simple, not showing values below 2nd digit after point). The question is however that when I do not close the doors using remote, they are closed automatically after about 1-2 minutes, but the sleep mode current stays at the level of 0,42A = 420mA, which is far too high. I've been waiting for about 5-7 minutes to see if it would eventually drops lower, but it did not. Don't expect that anyone here will tell me why it is happening, so will ask at Volvo workshop.

Using Vida I have successfully tested the car's alternator (there is internal test there - shows alternator voltage, emulating different battery temperatures) - it seems to be ok. Vida also checked that my car has 150A alternator, which is ok.

I have also more carefully investigated the case with radio/cd player. When everything is turned off, doors closed, this little bastard not only eats 1A constantly, but also tries to initialise CD (if there is CD in the drive) every 10-15 sec. You can even hear some initialisation sound, while sitting in the car, and the current raises to about 1,5A every time he tries to do that. However when there is no CD in the drive, it eats 0,7A constantly, and every 10-15 sec tries to drop the current to 0,3A and then raises it back to 0,7A.. So there is definitely some malfunction with the drive.

One more wonderful thing is that I have received feedback from one of 16 workshops, whom I asked to deactivate the MOST security. They said they can do that, and it will cost 56EUR, which is wonderful! The guy seem to be very smart and flexible, great that there are good people in the business!

To be continued.. ;)

[arisetobe]

Today I have received the recently ordered used CD player as well as managed to get to the workshop to turn off MOST security on the vehicle. After that I've spent an hour or so to install the CD player and:
1. It worked flawlessly and did not turn itself off automatically (which means that the MOST security was indeed turned off).
2. It turned itself off completely and did not drain any current when the vehicle was turned off (I've checked both with and without CD in the drive, in both cases the current dropped to the cherished 0.0A).

Lessons learned:
1. In order to own modern used car and don't guess what is happening with it, one should definitely have diagnostic tools. For volvo it is DICE/Vida that can be bought on Ebay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xdi ce+vida&_nkw=dice+vida&_sacat=0&_from=R40
). This will definitely save your €£$ every time you would like to diagnose the state of the car - so the unit will pay off itself at the very first use. Also I have managed to setup my radio/climate display to be always in night mode - which is alone a super cool result.. ;-)

2. While working with electronics in the car, one should have other instruments:
- Multimeter (http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw=dice+vida&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR3.TRC1.A0.H0.Xmultim eter&_nkw=multimeter&_sacat=0) - take one with 3 digits after point as you might need to measure very low current/voltage.
- Clamp meter (I've bought this one: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FC-33-80A-Mini-AC-DC-Clamp-table-DMM-CEM-clamp-meter-/390314450050?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ae08ddc82 but if I buy it again, I would probably buy this one, as it is multimeter and clamp-meter all in one: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Metrel-MD9210-Mini-Clamp-Meter-/310404323466?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement _Equipment_ET&hash=item48458a188a). Make sure that it can read DC current.

3. Since the measured current is really small, don't believe the clamp meter always, but use it rather for draft measurements. Always if possible double-check with multimeter (in ampere-meter mode).

4. Voltage drop method is just fine for investigating problems with electricity (some said on forums that it is not correct way - no, it is correct and it worked for me). This guy is guru in explaining how to do it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xerAp9Yd53Y

5. Once you have VIDA you will find tons of information on how to fix the car as well as the fact that you can and should remove fuses in order to find parasitic battery drain (some people here said that you should not remove fuses, but that is clearly written in the official Volvo documents, so please don't say if you are not sure).

6. At the first possibility ask your dealer to turn off MOST security (if they ask you why do you need it - tell them you want to install GROM device). This will allow you to change your parts without the need of updating software (which is in fact not a software, but registering the new device in volvo database, which is completely stupid for the 8-years old car).

7. While being at the dealer, I had some time to investigate modern Volvo cars. Did not like them.. :-( So my wonderful V50 is looking far better from outside and inside than these new super-glamour plastic toys.. But that is just imho.

Now I have to change my tires , change my high-pressure washer pump (for headlights washer to work), install GROM, install alarm, install dash cam.. but that is another story.

So, be healthy, don't cough! ;)

[numptynoidea]

Today I have received the recently ordered used CD player as well as managed to get to the workshop to turn off MOST security on the vehicle. After that I've spent an hour or so to install the CD player and:
1. It worked flawlessly and did not turn itself off automatically (which means that the MOST security was indeed turned off).
2. It turned itself off completely and did not drain any current when the vehicle was turned off (I've checked both with and without CD in the drive, in both cases the current dropped to the cherished 0.0A).

Lessons learned:
1. In order to own modern used car and don't guess what is happening with it, one should definitely have diagnostic tools. For volvo it is DICE/Vida that can be bought on Ebay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xdi ce+vida&_nkw=dice+vida&_sacat=0&_from=R40
). This will definitely save your €£$ every time you would like to diagnose the state of the car - so the unit will pay off itself at the very first use. Also I have managed to setup my radio/climate display to be always in night mode - which is alone a super cool result.. ;-)

2. While working with electronics in the car, one should have other instruments:
- Multimeter (http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw=dice+vida&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR3.TRC1.A0.H0.Xmultim eter&_nkw=multimeter&_sacat=0) - take one with 3 digits after point as you might need to measure very low current/voltage.
- Clamp meter (I've bought this one: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FC-33-80A-Mini-AC-DC-Clamp-table-DMM-CEM-clamp-meter-/390314450050?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ae08ddc82 but if I buy it again, I would probably buy this one, as it is multimeter and clamp-meter all in one: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Metrel-MD9210-Mini-Clamp-Meter-/310404323466?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement _Equipment_ET&hash=item48458a188a). Make sure that it can read DC current.

3. Since the measured current is really small, don't believe the clamp meter always, but use it rather for draft measurements. Always if possible double-check with multimeter (in ampere-meter mode).

4. Voltage drop method is just fine for investigating problems with electricity (some said on forums that it is not correct way - no, it is correct and it worked for me). This guy is guru in explaining how to do it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xerAp9Yd53Y

5. Once you have VIDA you will find tons of information on how to fix the car as well as the fact that you can and should remove fuses in order to find parasitic battery drain (some people here said that you should not remove fuses, but that is clearly written in the official Volvo documents, so please don't say if you are not sure).

6. At the first possibility ask your dealer to turn off MOST security (if they ask you why do you need it - tell them you want to install GROM device). This will allow you to change your parts without the need of updating software (which is in fact not a software, but registering the new device in volvo database, which is completely stupid for the 8-years old car).

7. While being at the dealer, I had some time to investigate modern Volvo cars. Did not like them.. :-( So my wonderful V50 is looking far better from outside and inside than these new super-glamour plastic toys.. But that is just imho.

Now I have to change my tires , change my high-pressure washer pump (for headlights washer to work), install GROM, install alarm, install dash cam.. but that is another story.

So, be healthy, don't cough! ;)

arisetobe, well done! Just found your thread (I've only been on here a month so never saw this when you were actually posting). Very useful trail of info you've posted there despite no-one really posting any replies.

[Wiseacre]

Hi

I've got the same issue. after a couple of battery drains I finally got a multimeter and thanks to this thread focused on fuse 43 (initially thought the alarm was the culprit as the rechargeable battery is on its way out).

Seems there was a 3A drain! After removing this fuse usage drops to ~.6A, still too high but a vast improvement, I'll narrow that down another time.

So, my issue is that this fuse also powers the GPS & navigation systems and possibly the On Call Service too. I would like to have use of the stereo if possible and don't use the RTI as the GPS module hasn't worked since well before I got the car (and a phone does the job just fine).

If possible I would like to disconnect the On Call and RTI systems and hopefully this is the source of the drain - not the stereo.

can anyone recommend the best way to do so?

[Wiseacre]

oh yeah, i've got the "on call service required" message too so if that's what it is getting it taken out would be the preference (never used it).