performance issues when car is hot and under load
 

Hello,

I have Volvo S60 2002 D5 163Hp with a strange problem that we are trying to resolve.

For the past year me and my mechanic are trying to resolve e problem with this car of mine :) The car had 200,000km and we made full service for all the parts that needed to be changed + oil, all the belts, filters, brakes etc.

Then we started to find a solution for the problem that when i press the gas pedal all the way down i have 2-3 kicks from the turbo on around 2000-3000 rpm on and off again see the picture (sorry i don't have the RPM's) but 2nd Gear is from around 1800-3300 RPM's.

http://read2enjoy.com/volvo-perf.jpg

Then we change the gas pump in the tank under the backseat in the gas tenk from another S60 and changed the gas filter with new one. Car didn't wanted to start OK when HOT and we even changed the injectors got new BOSCH elements (BOSCH 0 433 175 310 DSLA140P1061)

Then i don't know what exactly we ware testing and we got the car to got without that stop and go in 2nd and 3rd gear but got problems on higher speed and when going uphill, i know he got the high pressure pump out and just cleaned with high pressure air and mount it back again and tight few bold.

So out next guess was the high pressure pump (the regulator where you plug the cable) + my friend got another turbo, so on the next test with the car he tried the new turbo and high pressure pump and now the car has NO PERFORMANCE AT ALL, we got out own turbo back but now i can feel that the turbo is starting to work around 2000rpm, it will got NOT WITH A KICK to 2500-2600rpm and after that i will maybe drive it to 3000-3200rpm (it will take 30-40 sec to go from 2600rpm to 3200rpm and before was 4-5 sec) and from time to time if you drive the car over 3000rpm it will go to limp mode and i had to turn it off/ and on again.

So my fried mechanic thinks it's not enough and i think we have some air leakage because the only strange thing that i noticed is that when the car is cold when i sit in it in the morning for the first new minutes the car has much better performance and when it gets to normal working temp the performance is dropping, also this is experiencing when i press the gas pedal all the way down and going uphill (when the car has more pressure and needs more power)

Any idea where to go from here and not spend tons of money :)

Regards

Hi it seems that the turbo boost is not always responding to the vnt actuator from the ecu, when it dose boost it seems about correct, get a mityvac, vacuum pump and make shore the vnt leaver on the turbo is moving correctly
and check for any vacuum leaks,
in vida, move the vnt on and off with the engine runningand look at the vnt leaver on the turbo as you do it,
Dave

why is it not showing the rpm? as the box is selected ,
what is the max boost going to an at what revs, do a pull in 3rd gear, max boost should be around 3000-3500 rpm,
I Think your vnt mech in the turbo is not moving correctly and it gets harder to move as the car / turbo heats up
Dave

The VNT is changed and now is working in sync with the turbo, but we can't get performance from the car when it's working on normal temp. The last few weeks ware TOO hot here and the performance of the car was like the car has only 60hp not 160hp.

This days the temp is lower and I've made a few videos wit the car is cold (starting it after a night getting cold) and when the car hot after driving for 1 hour.

On this "when cold" video i could get even better performance but the road was not for fast driving, (i had to stop on 4000rpm in 3rd gear)but as you can see i can get to 5000rpm(2nd gear) which is not possible when the car is hot.

[YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/hKfyVCJaM-I[/YOUTUBE]

This next video is when the car is driven for about 1 hour and the temperature outside is 22C (last few weeks was around 37-38 and the performance ware even worst). Here is when hot and as you can see the RPM's are loading slower and i had open road here and the pedal was pressed full.

[YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/LipXpLf1KUs[/YOUTUBE]

I think it's something with rubber which is making performance issues when hot, but my mechanic think it's lack of fuel, because he checked for leaks and we don't have black smoke when pressing the pedal, also we have characteristics of not enough fuel on older disel cars.,

One of the first things we changed was the fuel pump which is in the fuel tank under the back seat, but the pump we got was from another car NOT NEW, the old one was just leaking and with this one we had some improvement but we think this is low pressure and we can't find not even in VIDA which the values should be.

Please take a look at the video and tell me if this is OK:

[YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/IQCJNN27vSw[/YOUTUBE]

At this moment we don't have a car with the same engine to compare but on citroen i think the car is not working if the fuel pump is not making 1.8bars and in our case we don't have even 0.1-0.2 bars, if you put a finger the fuel will stop.

Any ideas before we spend out money on new fuel pump? :)

Forgot to write we changed the fuel filter when we changed this pump and once again few weeks ago when we tried to clean the fuel system with blowing high pressure air from the engine to the filter and the other way around.

Hi what do you mean, did you remove the turbo and take out the VNT assembly,? and fit a new parts inside the turbo,
The VNT is changed and now is working in sync with the turbo

I was told that the tank pump should give about 10psi , as the HP pump on the engine will suck the fuel, have you put a pressure gauge on to that pipe,
log the main fuel pressure in vida, or any app, you can then see if it is correct ,
please let me know what you mean by , The VNT is changed and now is working in sync with the turbo, the VNT is inside the turbo
can you do another log in vida with

coolant temp
Inlet Air temp
boost pressure
atmospheric pressure
vnt
RPM
FUEL PRESSURE
Mass air flow,

Dave

Hi do you mean you have changed the VNT actuator on the side of the engine
above the starter motor,,
YOU NEED TO CLEAN THE VNT NOZZELS RING INSIDE THE TURBO,
YOU COULD TRY REMOVING THE DOWN PIPE FROM THE TURBO AND AND SPRAY TURBO, EGR, CARB CLEANER and leave over night ,
you can try some Turbo vnt cleaner that you put in the fuel tank, the in 4th gear from 40mph put your foot down all of the way and let the car go as fast as is safe then let the cr slow to 40 again do this many times to get the vnt vanes in the turbo moving,
also get some of this and run it in 1/4 of a tank of fuel,

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Liqui-Moly...53.m2749.l2649

Dave

Sorry for my non-tech writing, and yes we changed the vnt on the side of the engine mounted on the engine block above the starter motor.



We have tried another turbo but the results ware the same. We have also taken the turbo on a machine to be checked and set right. the told us the turbo is OK. Turbo removed, EGR removed and intercooler removed and checked if it's OK

One point in time we have managed to fix the performance a bit, but went back after we removed the intercooler and tried another turbo.

Here are two videos with the parameters you asked, but on graphic display we can choose only 5(max) out of 8, after that we stoped and second part of the recording is with values of all parameters.

This is video on ringroad around the city:

[YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/nmsfdJCK5r4[/YOUTUBE]

This second video is on a uphill, when i press on the RPM sensor around 1min we are in 5th gear with pedal all the way down. the car is just on 2k rpm and on 1:20 we are releasing and pressing the pedal so VNT is jumping a bit. On 1:40 the hill is over when i press on VNT sensor and RPMs are jumping ...

[YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/4BlxzPgQ1Wk[/YOUTUBE]

Also i should tell you the car was driving for 2 hours and i can't get the kick and stop just slow smooth week performance.

Hi that looks ok boost looks good not to high or to low,
this is what the turbo map settings are,
have you got a vac pump and gauge, to check all vac parts, engine mounts are vacuum controlled, and they do fail, and there is a vac actuator on the air box,
put the vacuum gauge on to the fitting on the actuator on the air box and make shore you have full vacuum at idle and the gauge needle is not flickering ,
some people have had a bad vac pump so only had vacuum at higher revs,
you need full vacuum at idle,
Dave

I have changed pics files,
Dave

Hi
when i press on VNT sensor and RPMs are jumping ...
Do press on with your Hand?, ore do you mean in Vida, if you mean in vida , rpm will change, fuel looks ok,
do vacuum tests,
Dave

when i press VNT i mean in vida when i highlight the parameters for VNT sensor

Here are videos about vacum this is from Airbox after 1000 rpm it closes it goes to 0 vacum

[YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/mn1BYD9wTHo[/YOUTUBE]


This is from Pump side:

[YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/p61BK705J50[/YOUTUBE]

can you check my uphill video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BlxzPgQ1Wk) and take a look at Rail pressure it's hitting 800,000 even over 900,000 hPa which when i convert them is 11,000-13,000 psi, and on this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TVA7enYPmg they are getting 7700psi max on 4900 rpm and we are hitting over 800,000 hPa on rpms when i feel that the car is slowing down

few months ago we removed the fuel regulator on the right side of the car in the high pressure pump just cleaned and put it back in and we had BOOST in performance for some time after that, later on we removed the pump and put it on a machine to test the pump and we ware told that the regulator is working but with some irregularities so we ordered NEW pressure regulator, when we put the new regulator we also tried with another turbo and that is the period when out performance went to POOR again.

So we have changed the regulator but not the sensor which is mounted on the other side. see the picture:

http://read2enjoy.com/sensor.gif

We don't have warning or alerts that the pressure is too high, but can we have faulty data from the sensor and this data tells the regulator to cut the pressure? which should be the values of the rail pressure?

Regards,
Nikola

Hi
Have a look at a newer post of Simons,
post 4 shows a reading he has done in torque , 23874Psi max rail pressure

ha also has a 2002 D5, and he has vida, he has made a lot of good videos
I have tried to send him a PM but his inbox is full,

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=254802

sorry I can not do a log of my car at the moment as I am unwell,

Dave

Hi maybe the fuel pressure is to low? can you put a gauge on the low pressure side of pump,
partsforvolvo do a after market pump kit at a good price
Dave

Hi I found some logs I did with my Delphi ds150e
max fuel pressure is 24098.045614417 PSI at 3084rpm ,at full boost
so you do have low fuel rail pressure, was your car in limp mode when you did the test?

some have used a after market fuel filter and it did fail soon after they fitted it,
I did have a crossland filter with no problem ,
now using Bosch,
can you look at the voltage of the low pressure pump at the fuse then at the pump when it is running, check you have full voltage with it running,

new pump, Dave
http://www.partsforvolvosonline.com/...oducts_id=4515

Hi How are you getting on with your car,
Dave

Sorry i went on vacation it was too hot here :)

A day before my trip we changed the high pressure sensor on the other side of the rail but no luck.

I've also noticed during the trip that when the temperature is lower the car is performing a bit better and as you can see on the picture below when we did the test the Air temperature is ~40C.

On the picture i have on left my car and on right a S60 2.4 D5 163hp volvo that we had for just computer test (couldn't swap parts to find my problem :( we ware allowed just to plug vida i make recording of the drive)

http://read2enjoy.com/vida-data.gif

We are now back from begging and my mechanic want's to doublecheck the MAF again. Waiting for good MAF sensor to make the test (not to buy one). I've seen a few MAF clean videos on youtube do you have any experience with it? Success %? Or wait for good MAF from a car that it's driving OK and test it?

Maybe the main characteristic is that when the weather outside is HOT the car has much much poor performance, I can see better performance in the first 2-3 minutes and when it's not that hot the performance is 5-10 minutes and it's dropping.

Any new ideas? :)

Regards,
Nikola

Hi you can use IPA to clean the mass air flow sensor,
Don't use brake or carb cleaner, let it dry before you put it
Back in,
Have you put a gauge on to the low pressure side of the pump to make shore that fuel is OK,
Dave

Hi Dave,

I think we pinpointed the problem. With 95% i can say it's the MAF sensor.

Few months ago we have tried another sensor but i think it was from pertol not disel engine and because we didn't have any error codes we skipped it as not our problem and moved on.

Now that we started rechecking again i got Air intake cleaner from WURTH and removed the air filter top with the MAF filter attached to it and sprayed with the cleaner, went for a test drive and got better results from the car, like 60-70% better performance. Then we removed the air filter top with the MAF attached and sprayed a bit more this time trying to clean it more. The result ware 200% better performance i could go to 4500rpm with 3 times on and off of the boost.

So the problem was in out MAF and we needed new one the car was performing much much better but not as it should, now we decided to make it or brake it and removed only the sensor from it's place and gave it a HUGE spraying and normally we broke it! :)

Now at least i have a error that says that my MAF is not working and the car i telling me to go to service and i don't have turbo at all, but it's performing much better from 0-2000rpm with the error code than it was before when i had NO error codes :)

I've ordered new bosch MAF sensor and should have it mounted on Wednesday afternoon, I'll post here the results.

Regards,
Nikola

Hi ,that's good news, some sprays can be to strong,
Let me know how it goes,
Dave

IT WAS THE MAF SENSOR!

Finally i got the car working as it should, funny thing is that the old one was not showing any error codes bit it was not working as it should.

In the process i had some parts changed that ware not due for changing so i spend some extra money, but now i know that the car is in a perfect condition :)

i can post some reference metrics from VIDA if you want, those metrics got us back checking the MAF which was not showing any errors and the car was once tested with another MAF sensor (probably it was faulty too)

I just saw the full power of this car and writing this post .. my old car was Fiesta with 90bhp, jumping to s60 with 163bhp is a huge difference for me :)

If any of you guys need any reference metrics just let me know and thanks for your help.

Regards,
Nikola

Hi that's brilliant, glad you got it going well,
Yes please post any good info as it can help others,
Dave