1800: Adjusting door on P1800S

[fishyboy]

Hi All,
I have been trying to adjust the passenger door on my 1800S. The door is approx 3-5mm low on the rear trialing edge, and sticks out my a few mm. The car was rebuilt approx 18 years ago and appears very straight.

So far I have tried removing the door card and loosening the 8 small bolts that mount the door to the hinge and then lifting the door (no real movement) and retightening with little effect.

I have also tried adjusting the striker plate, with no effect.

Has anybody any advice?

Thanks
Phil

[volvonic272]

Phil
Those bolts you tried to adjust with are tapered so you get virtually no adjustment there.
There are six long bolts hidden by the kick board below the dashboard, three at the top and three at the bottom.
They hold the hinges to the car.
If you open the door and look where the hinge is attached to the A post you may see shims underneath the hinge where it bolts to the car.
This where to adjust the door fitment.
However be wary when you slacken these bolts the door will drop a lot because the hole through the A post for the bolts is considerably larger than the bolt diameter.
This allows the door to be raised or dropped, the shims alter its position in or out .to fit the surrounding metalwork.
Be careful , slacken the bolts slowly to make fine adjustments otherwise you may damage your paintwork.
Also the hinge pins may worn.
Hope this helps
Dave

[fishyboy]

Dave
Thanks for the reply. Very helpful advice. I shall investigate at the weekend.

Also posted the same question of the Yahoo Groups 1800list (great site). Here are three replies:-

1) Also, there are notoriously two types of windlace for these cars--plastic and velvety. The velvety kind is the one you would want. If you have the plastic kind, your door will never close right. Does this make sense?

2)Mine stuck out like that. My body shop guy adjusted some shims at the hinges and amazingly it lined up perfectly.

3) Great question. For me, I think that the main answer is that, until now, I had never heard of anybody having a problem with door fit that couldn't be overcome when he/she was using the "correct" windlace. At least that's what made me convinced of this item of list-lore.

Keep in mind that the plastic one is correct for some cars. Also, keep in mind that I could make my doors fit by modifying the holes for the door latches and/or making the latches way too tight. I am also open to the idea that the "wrong" windlace works every once in awhile.

Other reasons are:

1. Comments by others who know these cars really well and have owned different years. I trust these people.
2. Lack of faith in repro parts. If you want a list of parts I have bought that were sold as replacements but were not exactly the same, I can give you a long list from the past 6 years of working on my car. This is not anybody's fault--it's like this when restoring other cars too.
3. I seem to recall that at least one listee had had a fitment issue, then went to the other kind of windlace (which was correct for his car) and then not had any fitment issues.
4. My windlace replacement coincided with my doors starting to stick out and need adjustment beyond that which was possible using factory mounting mechanisms.

I will be very happy if I am wrong about this. If you can adjust my doors (or your own doors with the "wrong" year windlace) I will be really impressed. I have adjusted mine to the brink of insanity and I've adjusted even '60's GM body panels successfully on many occasions!

I don't know why the wrong windlace wouldn't work. As you point out, it could either be the thickness of the clip part or the thickness of the air-filled seal part. That still leaves a question in my mind about why the car years would be different though, in terms of the body panels. Maybe something changed when they went with the new, reinforced doors on the later cars?

Phil

[Gordon Hunter]

Phil,

As your door alignment issues happened after fitting the rubber type door seal, I'd try the following first:

On my car I had the same issue, what I did was to make up a double sided gasket for the door lock striker plate out of 120 grit wet and dry (glue both halves together with Bostick), this stopped the force of the new seal forcing the door outwards and hence poor fitment.

Hope this helps,

Gordon

[fishyboy]

Hi
Thanks for the advice.
How do I get hold of the shims? Do I make them or can i buy them? What shape are they? What thickness? What material?
Phil

[volvonic272]

Phil
There are two bolts at the top, and two at the bottom not three.
The shims are similar size and shape to the plate on the inside of the kick board.
The shims are designed to slide between the hinge and the A post, without taking the bolts out. The holes are slotted.
Not sure on the various thicknesses.
You could make your own or try and ask on the forum if anyone has any knocking about.

Dave

[fishyboy]

Hi all,
I removed the kick plate and noticed the upper hinge has three shims (1mm?) and the lower one none. I removed one shims and will try and make some new ones using it as a template. I guess I should try adding one at a time to both hinges in order to bring the rear edge on the door inwards.
Phil

[JP 1800]

If the bottom rear of the door is protruding, place shims on the top hinge only and vice-versa or if the whole door is protruding place shims behind both hinges. Be careful when adjusting the door as you can easily chip the paint. Use the latch plate to hold the door closed and in place, then ensure the hinge bolts are properly tightened as these doors are very heavy and can drop easily.

[fishyboy]

JP 1800
Thanks for the advice. I have now made some extra shims from 1mm thick steel plate.

Having read you instructions are you suggesting that I loosen the bolts, insert the shims (following your advice on shimming the top, bottom or both), then close the door and finally tighten the bolts with the door closed? Ive been shimming, then tightening the bolts and then closing without much success!

Phil

[fishyboy]

Hi all
I received the following advice from Gary Suffel on adjusting the doors on my 1800, which people may find useful for future reference.

Also has JP got a response to my last question?

"Phil, I see nobody has asked the most important question,,,how worn are your hinges? These cars are 50 years old with heavy doors. That being said, the passenger side ones are usually in better shape due to less use. If you have ANY noticeable movement on the hinge, trying to align everything, perfectly, is next to impossible.
I’ll try to walk you through the steps I took to fit the doors on my ‘62. (notorious for bad fitment)
First off, let’s take the windlace out of the equation, the thickness difference between the felt(fuzzy) type and the plastic ones SHOULD not be an issue, as the doors are not in contact with that part, the door only compresses the rubber tube to create a seal. If they ARE contacting the crimp, then the issue is with the metal it crimps to. I’ve seen poor rocker replacement leave that metal edge sticking too far out into the door opening. You should be able to align the doors, with the gap correct, being flush, front and back without the windlace in place.
To make the adjustments easier to do, you need to think of the door as 2 long triangles, laid on top of each other with the points at opposite ends, somewhat like a bowtie. This will allow you to visualize the way a shim at the front will affect the rear of the door. The door pivots on a plane in direct alignment withe the latch mechanism at the rear of the door.
So, the adding/removal a shim at the front top of the door it will pivot the bottom rear of the the opposite direction.
What I (eventually) did on mine, was to set the bottom gap with a piece of material so the door lined up with the body panel lines, front and back in height. Door closed,with the front hinges loose and no shims and the striker plate snug , but still moveable , you can gently pry on the bottom lip of the door and get the body lines, where you want them. (I used a paint stir stick, but mine was in primer, you may want to use a screw driver wrapped in tape ) You have to fill that bottom gap, so you can reproduce these results.
Have an assistant tighten the front hinge bolts, this will give you a starting point to see how much the front edge of the door has to be shimmed . You may need the same amount, top and bottom,maybe not. If you lay a straightedge on the front fender hanging over the door,( which should be low at this point), at the level of the middle of the hinges and measure that gap, you’ll know how much to shim each hinge to bring the door up flush. Loosen the hinge, and gently , so as not to move the door latch, open the door. Add your shims, tighten the latch , replace the filler on the bottom as you close the door. Check the gap at the front and the rear sides of the door, adjust as needed,using your pry tool, and then tighten the front hinges.
Now, if you open the door, the filler will fall out, and IF your hinges aren’t worn, the door should close exactly where you had it.At this point I went one step further, in that I repositioned the latch so that the door didn’t ride on it as the door closed, it should just be just as a guide, not actually taking any weight of the door.
Now is when you’ll see if the trailing edge of the door is flush, depending on these results there is a couple of ways to fix them.
If they’re both sticking out, adjust the latch towards the cabin. (Easy)
If the bottom corner only is sticking out, I wrapped a 2x4 in some rags, put it in between the bottom back corner of the door and the rocker and applied pressure to the top to twist the door(an old bodyman trick) just a little at a time, check after each time you apply pressure.
If the top only is proud, readjust the latch, and then repeat the second fix to bring the bottom back out.
Changing the shims at the front to re-orient the “bowtie”, may cause more grief than it’s worth.
There are other ways to achieve “perfect” lines,gaps, but these are for “show” cars, and best left to pros."