S60 Brakes: More S60 brake concerns - pedal feels too soft after bleed

[ilmiont]

Yet another thread about my new to me 2005 MY S60 haha, anyway I wrote about brakes last in this thread -> https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=306414 after suspecting brake fluid loss which didn't actually exist but there was air in the system.

I've now had the car back from the garage a couple of days; brakes were bled and after an inspection I was informed brakes look good all around, and confirmed pads are young and high-quality.

Thing is, I've got back in the car and the pedal barely feels any different to before. To me, it still feels rather soft, and I seem to have to press quite a long way before getting a lot back. The garage's proprietor who had been driving the car regularly last week assured me before I drove away that the brakes were now fine.

They do stop the car when pressed but they're just not as sharp to a light press as I'd like. A gentle press on the pedal at 30mph barely shaves a few mph off. If I get in the car and start the engine, the pedal feels rather lighter than I'd expect.

It's definitely not sinking, it's definitely got recent brake fluid to the MAX mark, it's definitely got good pads, I can pump the pedal up with the engine off and it will go rock solid; starting the engine while holding the pedal causes it to drop as expected but then sinks no further. Garage, a reputable Volvo independent, pressure bled the brakes and said they now feel fine. Yet I'm still unhappy.

So what's to be made of this? I'm suspecting one of the following:

1. There's still some air.
2. Caliper springs fitted incorrectly? Seems to be a common cause of poor braking performance. Plausible garage missed them during the walkaround if previous owner's garage had fitted them wrong?
3. I'm pressing it wrong?

To explain number 3, after very much browsing of these forums, I came across this post -> https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showp...21&postcount=3

Specifically:

Power assisted brakes are a weird thing, press gently and it'll brake gently, press fast (without going any further) and it'll grab harder.

Now I'm naturally a light touch on the pedals (well, the brake anyway ) but point is, I do tend to anticipate a ways ahead and hold the pedal lightly in one motion until speed is reduced as appropriate.

From that quote above, it would sound as though the pedal is then perhaps behaving in the way it should do? It's just it's really not meeting my expectations. But if I pulse brake, within a few pulses it's really stopping hard.

My only previous driving experience is with VW group cars built after 2010; each I've driven the pedal has felt harder than my S60's, and the brakes have been much more responsive to a light press. Moving from a 1.0 Skoda Citigo to a 2.5 S60 and having brakes which feel softer is disconcerting to say the least. Would the brakes on the VWs be using a different boosting system to our Volvos which results in more force after a gentle press?

As mentioned above, I naturally use the brakes lightly and it's very rare I'll press the pedal fast, or press it particularly far, unless there really is an urgent need to lose velocity (hazard ahead or genuine emergency). In the VW cars, the brake pedal really seemed to respond well to my style of driving. My S60 just... doesn't. I'm having to press the pedal further than I naturally do.

I'd really appreciate viewpoints on the above. At present I'm thinking of taking it back to the garage mid-week and requesting another check because this is currently marring my experience of the car. But if I all need to do is adapt my driving style slightly and actually press them harder, then, well, that's all I need to do but seeking some reassurance really.

Intend to take her out tomorrow on quiet roads and really experiment with the pedal and how it responds to different forms of actuation. Maybe if I just press it a bit faster then all of this will prove to be resolved...

[oragex]

Look through the wheel spikes https://youtu.be/OMeRqbr2EMs
Otherwise you may have got air inside the caliper if you released the bleeders, need to bleed them with a hose https://youtu.be/4dM9nbMLyvE

[happy diver]

Originally Posted by oragex

Otherwise you may have got air inside the caliper if you released the bleeders, need to bleed them with a hose https://youtu.be/4dM9nbMLyvE

Yeah bleed your brakes ilmiont two man method
down-up on the pedal, open-close on the bleeder

and whoever invented the system in oragex post

seriously needs to see a professional immediately

[ilmiont]

Checked the caliper springs last night; all four look to be installed correctly.

At last some rain so went out on wet roads and got the ABS to activate... doesn't seem to have made a difference though.

It does stop pretty quickly if I stab the pedal as if it's an emergency situation, I just don't like the feel in everyday driving.

Think I'm going to call the garage again today or tomorrow and see what they have to say; they did take it 20 miles for various reasons and assured me brakes are fine so I'm not really sure what to think; either they've overlooked something, it's got worse again, or maybe I need to get used to the feel of the pedal.

[oragex]

I assume the place that did the bleeding did pay attention not to let the fluid level inside the reservoir lower and suck air ? That would cause air going into the master or even into the ABS unit.

[pierremcalpine]

It might simply be a bedding in issue. Give it a couple of hundred miles and report back. For what it's worth, when I bleed mine I like to have a hammer on hand to tap the back of the caliper near the bleeder to help get those last tiny little bubbles to come out. Even a tiny bit of air changes the feel. That and...don't ever let anyone else touch your brakes.

Also, Happy Diver is right - ideally bleed yourself using a proper pressure bleeder or two man method.

[dingov70]

Hello there , stepping in with a view here . If you feel you have a spongy pedal & there is no more air being bled from the system , you have several other ports of call

1) you have worn seals / small mark in bore of master cylinder , allowing fluid to leak past . The piston & seal assembly could also be sticking in its bore due to wear and corrosion & not returning to the correct starting point

2) you have an exceptionally efficient servo / vacuum system , leading to a feeling of softness

3) rubber brake hoses that are beginning to deteriorate / bulge under pressure .

4) flex in brake pedal mount / worn pedal mounting bushes

5) you have an issue with the ABS unit

When I changed my Granada / RS Escort / landrover & transit from rubber to Aeroquip hoses the pedal was rock hard & very very progressive

[ilmiont]

I don't think it's bedding in as the pads haven't been changed anytime recently (but are reasonably young) and I've been 300+ miles in it since I've owned it.

I wouldn't even say the pedal is spongy so much any more, as just a bit lighter and easier to press than I'd like, with too gentle a response.

I only need to press the pedal a little way to have it slow, it's not like there's a deadzone, but if I press it say 1-2 inches it's only slowing it gently. There's no immediate strong bite.

My issue seems to be very much like this -> https://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/fo...ic.php?t=89023

And my pedal can be pushed like in this video, which seems to be "normal" although a different car -> https://youtu.be/NSbdVdmPu0c?t=217

That seems to be a "light" pedal response based on cars I've driven previously which have had a stiffer pedal and better initial bite. As I've only just got my S60 and have no experience of any other Volvos I'm really not sure if I'm imagining things at this point and I do wonder if it's just the booster behaving differently to what I'm used to.

Might try recording a video of my own pedal later.

[marcb]

This might sound odd but what is your driving position. I find with the seat a long way back the brake feels like it has a longer travel. Bringing the seat forward finds the pedal tight with minimal travel.

This is probably something to do with the mechanics of one's leg...

Also is it an auto or manual.

[barrybritcher]

fit semi metallic pads.

enjoy.

except the noise and the brake dust.